Using Roofr for Commercial Jobs

Pete: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Roofr Masterclass. I am your host Pete with my co-host Nick, and we are joined today by roofer's very own Cam Murphy. So welcome Cam. Uh, Cam's got some commercial experience, so we thought it would be, uh, you know, relevant to have Cam on here today and help us kind of walk through this.

Uh, excited to have everybody jumping on and, and, uh, an interesting topic here. I think, like I was just telling the guys that, you know, we just, uh. Explored commercial roofing a bit, um, you know, from a research standpoint and, you know, talking to some of our users about, uh, the amount of commercial roofing that they do and, uh, you know, the type of commercial roofing that they do.

Um, you know, 'cause we have a lot of residential guys obviously on our platform and some of them dipping their toe, I guess, into the commercial roofing side a bit. And so it was interesting to kind of see the results of that. And, uh, get a good understanding of what our customer base looks like. But, uh, you got some housekeeping items here, Nick, for us, uh, to start with, and then we'll, uh.

Roll into it. Yeah, I think,  

Nic: I think the first point is that, uh, now we have two roofers on the masterclass. Um, but I think Pete, you, you, you ran some tests before and you were able to come to the conclusion that I'm the better Roofr out of me and Cam between us, right? So  

Pete: I, I will say this, the only time that I witnessed you firsthand roofing your gun broke and I think error.

Cam: It's not the, it's not the tool is the user button.  

Pete: Yeah. I, I think he, I, I think Kim, I think he actually finished dead last that day. Uh, yeah. Did. But in his defense, the gun did break. So multiple  

Nic: times. Multiple times. Multiple  

Pete: times, yeah. Which was not a good showing for the tool brand. Uh, no. We won't mention names, but, uh, it's not a good showing for them that day, but.

Yes, that, that's my only exposure to, uh, firsthand exposure to you roofing. So  

Cam: once you're really technical, the first time I saw you shingle, you did do, you did low nail. So I will say I don't  

Nic: remember that. I don't remember that at all. So, uh, no, Mike, it wasn't the only time I was on a Roofr, but it was my only time I was on a fake Roofr, like a platform doing a shingling competition to be fair.

So.  

Cam: You're still on the ground and you were, I was, yeah. So you should have been able to do it properly, but that's  

Nic: okay. It was difficult. But, uh, yeah. Let's get to the housekeeping things other than meeting, I'll say this  

Pete: though, in mixed defense, the guy who won the thing was like a Viking from Alaska who has won the thing like five straight years.

So the chances of Nick beating this guy were like slim to nun probably. Anyway, the guy was an absolute monster, so it, uh, he, he was  

Nic: leading like I, I was leading my, he. By a decent amount before the, the, the gun broke. And then I watched him. He was the heat after me, and he was, he like, if we were going head to head, he would've been done the bundle by the time I was halfway through it.

So just like, the guy was a, a freak and like, yeah, he was a machine. All the nails were on the line. It was nuts. The guy was a machine. So, um, but, uh, yeah. So getting into this, uh, again, the host here is Pete McKendrick. I am his Robin. Uh, to his Batman, uh, Nick Cap Bianco. You can reach us here at any time, Pete at Roofr dot com.

And nick at Roofr dot com there. And, uh, Pete, why don't you start off with this.  

Pete: Oh my gosh. We have a masterclass giveaway, right? So, um, this is a new thing for us. Uh, some masterclass swag finally coming in. Um, ma masterclass specific swag. Uh, so you can, we're gonna randomly select one person and obviously Roofr renowned known for its socks.

I was, uh, just at an event in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Did a presentation and uh, I had someone come up to me after my presentation in Green Bay and say, look what I wore today. He had on Roofr socks. And so, uh, they become, and he said they're very comfortable. He said, I love them. So they, uh, they become super popular, but we have some, uh, some Roofr Masterclass specific socks.

With Nick and i's faces on them. Uh, so if you guys are interested in those, uh, we have, um, we'll randomly select a winner. Um, what do we got here? Follow us on social right. For Roofr Announcements 25, obviously a big year. We've got a little bit of a shift here. With the rise, we had rise coming, uh, in the spring.

We've now shifted that to the fall because the season's kicking off, getting super busy. I know we just saw a ton of hail here. Uh, last Friday night, uh, here in Kentucky, that was absolutely crazy. And so the roofers are literally tripping over themselves to get to houses here Now, uh, you know, so that season is in full swing, so we're gonna shift the rise and push it to the fall, October, November timeframe.

So keep an eye out for that. And, uh. What else we got here? Q April 1st masterclass will be a Q1 wrap up. So, uh, those are just great. Uh, if you guys are using the product, we're not using the product, then you just wanna know, uh, what we have going on. Some of the things that we've put in there feature-wise in the last, uh.

You know, a couple of months and, and things that we have coming up, you know, possibly in Q2, uh, those are a great way to, to kind of figure out where we're at with the product and, uh, grab some feedback on, uh, all the things fun going on. Um, I think this quarter  

Nic: is especially was crazy for features. If you want a quick rundown of everything there, it's a bunch of stuff coming.

So the April 1st masterclass is gonna be awesome.  

Pete: Yeah, that'll be a good, a good, uh, wrap up to Q1 for sure.  

Nic: So, uh, I could jump on this one. So just for you guys, this, uh, the recording's always posted on Roofr dot com on our YouTube channel. Also in the help center at the bottom left hand side of your screen.

You'll always be able to find these here as well. They're typically posted a data to after, uh, in there. But if you do have any, uh, questions, we have our chat. Feel free to, uh, we see it's a very active already. Feel free to ask any questions. Cam, Pete and myself and Jen in the background will be able to help out.

And if you have any feedback, email Jennifer at Roofr dot com. Uh, you got that email right there and there will be a short survey after. If you guys could give us some feedback and stuff like that too, that would be very, very helpful and we would really, uh, enjoy that. 'cause then we get to figure out what you guys are like and what we guys, what we can make better on this and everything else.

Pete: Yeah. One thing to note too is that help center, not only does it include the, uh, the masterclasses, but we also have the podcast in there. The blogs, lots of help, uh, stuff. Um, Roofr Academy. Roofr Academy is now linked in there, so lots of good, uh, resources there. If you're new to the product or just wanna learn more about the product.

Lots of cool stuff there In the, uh, uh, in the resources section, in the help section of the, the website. There it is.  

Nic: There we go. Awesome, Pete. Well why don't we get started. Talk a little bit about, uh, or do we wanna get into Cam's, credentials being second best Roofr on this podcast and, uh, history on the Roofr as well.

Pete: Yeah. Cam, do a little introduction so everybody knows who you are and what you do here at Roofr, and then we will, uh, start to dive into it. Okay.  

Cam: Obviously I'm Cameron. What you want My background in the industry? Is that what we're doing here?  

Nic: Yeah. Flex your muscles a little bit.  

Cam: Um, so I've been in, I'm a third generation.

I'm a third generation Roofr. Um, everybody in my family. Is a Roofr. My grandfather was a kettleman. My father was in roofing for 55 years. He was a flat Roofr and foreman. That's all he ever did. 20 years on the tools myself. I was also a flat Roofr and foreman switching to sales about eight years ago. Um, did residential retail sales.

Been with Roofr for, what, three years now?  

Nic: Three years now. Yeah. Yeah. Three years. Yeah.  

Cam: Yeah. I'm a senior account executive here at Roofr. Um, so I talk to contractors all day and show them the system and all sort of stuff. But I also use it, uh, myself. I do own a residential retail roofing business in Ontario, Canada.

Um, yeah, and, uh, regardless of what Nick says, I would Roofr surface around him on flats and on shingles and, uh, yeah, I don't either. So.

Pete: I love it. Well, let's dive into it a little bit, right? So obviously Cam's our, uh, in-house commercial guy. We have a couple guys that have done some commercial work, but, um, you know, so obviously, you know, a lot of people, like when they think of systems, they don't think commercial roofing, right? Most of the CRMs that are out there have been specifically built and geared towards the residential side of the world.

Uh, there really isn't a lot when you talk about. Roofing specific commercial CRMs, uh, it's very, very limited. Most people are going off, if they do commercial work, they're using some type of a GC style, uh, platform. You know, like a, um, Procore or Salesforce or some of these, like really large, uh, over the top softwares that, you know, for the Roofr, a lot of times it's just way more than what they need and, uh.

You know, so I think what we found, you know, like we, like I said, we ran a little bit of survey here and just kind of surveyed our internal users. We have a lot of guys that are doing both, right? Like we have a lot of guys that are picking up commercial jobs, starting to venture more into commercial, doing more commercial work.

Uh, not only I. Steep slope commercial, but low slope stuff, flat Roofr stuff. And so, you know, they're branching out and they're trying to figure out, or, or are working inside of Roofr and, and trying to figure out how to best utilize a Roofr. So, um, you know, I think this is a great kind of introduction to how we can.

Utilize Roofr, leverage Roofr to, to still handle those commercial projects. If, if you're potentially already using it or if, uh, you're considering using it, you know, if some of those other platforms are too much. I will say this, uh, we had a Roofr of the month, Jeremy Simpson, Simpson Roofing, uh, back in January I believe, and, uh.

Jeremy's, um, grew up in, in the business. They are, they've been a commercial roofing company for a long time. He ventured into residential, so now they do both. Uh, but they use Roofr and said that one of the biggest selling points for them, even on the commercial side was the simplicity of the product and the fact that they are a small company.

And it didn't just, all those other softwares just did not make sense for them. Just way too complex, way too much functionality they didn't need. And so. Roofr has really worked for them. Uh, you know, and so I think that that's a lot of, uh, what kind of, what we wanna talk about today is like, how are we leveraging it on the commercial side and what can we do potentially better, uh, to help us land some commercial business?

I.  

Nic: Yeah, and, and there's, I think there's a good breakdown of like the difference between types of commercial. Mike Wilson put that in there as well. Like commercial doesn't have to always mean flat, right? Like big, large, flat scapes. It could be a commercial building that's pitched metal, shingled, whatever the case is.

But really taking a look at what commercial roofing is to a contractor, trying to dip their toes into it, transition into it and understand like what are some of the tools that are available at your disposal. And I think a big thing to take a look at is. If you are interested into it, it's, it's a great opportunity and Cam will get into some of the misnomers that people think going from residential into commercial.

If they're gonna be similar, spoil alert, they're not. So Cam can give you like firsthand uh, uh, uh, feedback on that as well. But the other big thing is like if you're looking to kind of scale and grow your company and stuff, having a bit of commercial in the background is a great way to kind of increase that revenue.

I always say like, residential's a good way to keep your lights on. I. Commercial's a good way to put you on vacation. So if you have a couple, uh, as you go along, it's gonna help you out with that stuff. But you have to be aware of like what's gonna be involved in it, the different size and scope when you're looking at payments, draws, all those things built into it.

Plus the differences in material and how to set it up. And another big thing that we wanted to take, take into account, you go from residential and looking at like an average ticket size of like 10 to $20,000 per Roofr, and you dip your toe into commercial. Those are going to be a huge ticket. You're looking six figures probably at the very minimum to op, uh, and scale up from there.

So you can't just give a pen and paper line item, print out of a quote. You really need to match that buying persona to what you're presenting. So having a robust proposal feature that's gonna answer all their questions, clear those roadblocks and be able to set you apart from the other competition is gonna be.

Absolutely mandatory for getting into that as well.  

Pete: I think let's start by talking about, let, let's kind of differentiate here, right? I think that it'll be good to kind of cover both. Let's talk about steep slope commercial, right? So we, uh, you know, like Mike just said in here, I do a lot of shingle apartment buildings, right?

So a lot of multifamily stuff. Uh, you know, like I know a guy that was doing nothing but churches. Um, you know, so you've got some of these steep slope commercial projects that are still considered commercial, right? Mm-hmm. But, um, but I think the approach. Is gonna be a bit different obviously, than the residential side, but obviously even then the flat Roofr side.

Right? So talk a little bit cam about, uh, the steep slope side and how the product can be leveraged for that specific type of commercial Roofr thing.  

Cam: Well, I mean, one thing, obviously the presentation aspect of things when it comes to actually president presenting that to property manager or if you gotta go to an HOA or if you, there's multiple people that you have to go through.

One, you can cc multiple people on those proposals and send it out to them. Create that good looking estimate. That's gonna, I mean, I'm in Ontario, Canada. I'm speaking on what I know in Ontario for the most part, but a lot of roofers out here, they don't do that presentation aspect. It's, you know, simple paper or one page kind of a deal and send it off from there, right?

So the presentation aspect is always a plus. Um. Being able to just create a measurement or a proposal from a measurement report is always significantly easier. And you can break it down, itemize it by, if you have a six six building townhouse complex and you have to break each building down, you can create a measurement report for each one of those and then send a proposal out with all of those measurements in there.

Um, and then when it comes to material ordering and all these other things, but I mean, the real difference between. Um, commercial, big commercial jobs on the steep slope side and the residential side is the amount of things that you have to do. And I think a lot of contractors, when they go from.

Residential, just residential single family homes, and then jump into the big commercial projects where you have 6, 7, 8 townhouse complex. There's a lot more that you have to do bin placements and letting people know and setting up scaffolding to protect the walkways and all these different things that come along with it.

So there's a lot more that's involved in it, and a lot of time people don't realize that and they get caught up in that one. They might not price properly for it. Two. Cover the overhead that comes with that. And then there, you know, the last thing you want to do is say we do a contract for 200,000. They sign off on that contract.

You didn't realize that, oh well now we gotta get scaffolding to cover these different walkways and. You're at 300,000. You can't go back to them and say, Hey, we need an extra a hundred thousand dollars. They're gonna say, no, you don't. And you're kind of left holding the bag on that one. So at the same time though, when it comes to the presentation with Roofr, you can put all of that into the presentation, right?

Like with the document photo that's coming out, you can create those documents and you can have, um, um. Drawings and diagrams of where you're gonna be putting your bins and where you're gonna be putting your materials and what sections you're gonna be marking off for safety and all this other stuff. So there's a lot, there's a lot that's involved in commercial side of things.

Even more so on the, on the flat roofing side, which we'll get into in a minute. 'cause flat roofing's, uh. Different ball game.  

Nic: Yeah. There's so many different layers to it. The scaffolding's a big thing that that of, of letting people know, kind of scheduling wise on where it is, that dumpster placement, those rooftop deliveries, it really opens up all this stuff there.

So. All these things get a little bit more complicated as things go along. So you wanna make sure that not only can you win that job, that's one part of it. But Pete, you always talk about process. Pete, you talk about the production side all the time. It's not just doing the Roofr. I. It's doing it in a timely manner, making sure that the customer's set up for success, everyone is happy involved, so that you can then get that repeatable business from there as well.

So the better that you set it up from the beginning and the better that you get it ready is going to help you along the lines.  

Pete: Yeah, and I think one of the biggest things, like even Cam touched on it, is communication, right? The communication with potentially multiple people. There's a lot more communication involved.

This is probably going to result in a longer process than what we're used to on the residential side. You know, like I know talking with Jeremy Simpson, Jeremy said like, you know, hey, I can write a proposal and I may not hear from these people for six or eight months. And then they may just pick up the phone and call and say like, Hey, you know, you gave me a promo, uh, proposal eight months ago, like, we're ready to do the job now.

And he's like, and then I gotta go try to find the proposal. And I that I forgot I even wrote, you know? And so it's like. How are we keeping up on, you know, from a communication standpoint, you know, staying on top of this stuff, Roofr now with its automations, uh, you know, is, is a huge asset. You know, because of the length of these projects and stuff, and not having that stuff slipping through the cracks.

Now you can automate a lot of that comms and, uh, you know, like Cam said, like now you have the ability to have multiple people on these things so that you can cover all your bases as far as, uh, who you're communicating with, you know, but I think that's the biggest thing is that there's a lot. Like, yes.

Granted, we often talk about, you know, Nick talks about transparency with the homeowners. You know, it's a big one, but I think that transparency is even like on a whole nother level when you go to these commercial jobs, right? Like you're forced to, right? Like you have to, or the job is not gonna work, right?

Like, they're not even gonna hire you probably if they don't feel like you're gonna be transparent about everything you're doing.  

Cam: Well, yeah. They make you so, like if you're talking to like property managers and, and you're dealing with like con. Building owners and there's five people on a board and they, everybody has to know what you're doing when you're doing it and how you're gonna be doing it.

Like if you're starting on one section of the Roofr, you have to let everybody know that you're starting on this section of the Roofr. If you change your mind and wanna start on a new section, you have to talk to everybody involved in that decision making process to make sure that they're okay with you not starting here.

And you said you were gonna start here, but now you're starting over here. And then they have to let the homeowners know. And all these different things have to kind of come into play and. Having the ability to do that inside of the system and send those emails and get in contact with absolutely everybody makes that whole process a little bit easier.

Pete: Yeah, talk a little bit about Nick, about measurements and how the measurements come into play. The, what we've built on the measurement side as far as like these multi, especially these multi-building projects.  

Nic: Yeah, you're gonna wanna be number one, super accurate with that. And the more detailed that you can present to that board, cam brought up the board and typically if you're working with an HOA, you're gonna be presenting in front of a board and convincing not just one buyer, but multiple in there.

So the more information and the more transparent you can be is gonna be super important. With that, having those measurements, not only kind of a bunch of, you know, graph paper like Cam and I used to do back in the day, sketch out the Roofr and then put in the measurements in there. I was better at measuring than hey was as well.

Um, but uh,  

Cam: you hold your tape backwards and upside down. I don't know what you're talking about.  

Nic: So, uh, but like there's that, and then you can present it to them. Or even just a bunch of numbers on a sheet being like, Hey, we got 14 buildings. Each building is 20 square, blah, blah, blah. That's one way to do it.

But if you really wanna present, separate yourself from the competition and win those that trust, providing a multi-page detailed. Presentation on just the measurements. And what we can do, I'll share my screen quickly, is really open that up through the, uh, the, the measurements aspect of it and, and create a MultiOption report.

So prime example of a commercial style multifamily, HOA here that we have in, in this. And we got a ton of buildings, but let's just pretend that we're looking at just the interior here. If I were to go into Roofr very quickly and I'm into a job. I wanna put in that in there really quickly and wanna be able to get that report back economically as well.

That's another big thing that we're thinking about here. We're not looking at 30 to $70 a report. We're gonna be looking at that 13 if you're on that subscription. But once you put that in, uh, oops. I did not do this one. Gimme a sec. This one is Florida. Um. Spoiler alert, that other address is gonna be for a commercial flat roofing example.

Um, but you can build that in here. Customer can go in and, and you can start ordering for them directly in there. So if I go to measurements from that job card and order that Roofr report, I'm gonna be able to take on all these buildings and I can pin them in the way that I want them to be. So each pin is going to be a separate report, and by doing it this way.

You'll have the measurement for each one of these, and then, uh, a total measurement for all of them together, which means that you're not only gonna get the square and the pitches and everything else, but you'll get the waste factor. You're gonna get the, um, the eaves, the rakes, the valleys, et cetera, et cetera as you go along, and you can build that out.

So say they only want those 10 reports, super easy to add those in, doesn't matter to square count, but you'll be able to order this out within minutes. And you're gonna have that directly in that job card, and you'll be able to track everything that's in there. So you'll see everything that's broken down, and we'll have a total at the top there and how it would look.

I actually have a multi-family report done here, so let me just bring it up.

Boom. All right, so you can see here I have 10 different buildings already up here. If I want to download that report with my logo on it, it's going to be able to download all 10. I could look at them separately or could download a summary. Now, instead of picture in your head, that graph paper, that graph those numbers on the side panel that you're handing to a, a, a, a board of directors that are ready to spend six figures on a house or some, or you provide them something like this.

A nice summary with all the pinned roofs there, a breakdown of each one of those breaking down all the different pitches, all the different waste factors. Everything through each one, as you can see, has a slightly different recommended waste factor on it, and they can see exactly what's going on with it.

Including a summary of all the structures in clo, uh, at the end too. So here's a NU nine 10, and all of them breaking down piece by piece. Everything that needs to be done in the recommended waste factor for all of it. You could even get the material calculations for everything, for the shingle starters, ice and water, synthetic drip, edge valley, all that stuff in there, and present it to them in a nice.

Easy to read fashion when you're building out a proposal. You could have multiple, each building separately where they can select from, and a total building option where they could do all of them, and you could add a discount on that as well to really appetize that full replacement option there and provide upgrades for each one of those as well.

So. This way you're able to really open up the door to provide yourself, uh, a little bit of separation from what you're dealing with, so that if you're not, don't have that track record of being in that commercial space and you're up against those who have been, this will allow you to be a little bit more apart from that competition, and I'll give you the chance of winning that job.

Pete: Yeah, I mean, I really like the upsell opportunity of that, right? Because a lot of times they may call you and say like, Hey, we've got eight buildings. We need you to take a look at these two. Right. We know these two need a Roofr or these two have damage, or whatever the case may be. But now with the way this is set up, I can essentially measure and quote all eight, let's say, or 10 or whatever it is, and then I have it right?

I can present that to them and say, Hey, you know, we've got, uh, you know, here's your, here's your quote for your two buildings. But if we did all eight, like Nick said, if we did all eight, here's where we're at. And that may not sell them on all eight right at that moment, but. Now you've got that in their hands.

They may come back later and say like, Hey, we wanna do two more buildings. We wanna do the rest of them, whatever the case may be. So, uh, it just opens the door for a great upsell opportunity there. Being able to pin all those buildings at once and, and create one big nice report. So, uh, really like that functionality I.

Nic: Even that presentation there, having those multiple options that they could choose, like maybe they do want to just do 1, 2, 6, and seven of those buildings 'cause they're the worst ones out there. You can allow yourself to upsell because they can see those numbers adding up with their multi-select option.

And then if they're like, okay, you know what, let's just get this all done at one time. Let's do everything there Cam, the Roofr is providing us a very generous 15% off if we do all buildings. Or it's gonna save us, I dunno, $4,000 or whatever. Boom. We could select that and you can see how that opens up. And then from Pete's point, we can communicate the process, going after that, adding in checklist notes, all that stuff, and making sure the setup is set up, uh, there.

And we're communicating with, uh, updates through our automations as well.  

Pete: Yeah, it's a big difference there. Uh, so camp, talk a little bit about some of the things that you see, the major differences, right? Like we talked a little bit about, um, you know, like some of the stuff on the production end. What about from like a sales standpoint, what are some of the major differences you see?

Um. Between quoting a residential house, dealing with a homeowner, and quoting like, let's say an HOA or a a property management group. And, uh, what that entails from a, you know, from a presentation proposal, uh, standpoint.  

Cam: Well, the presentation aspects obviously gotta be there, right? You mean you just have to have a good looking estimate.

You may. If they believe that you're gonna be the co, if you can visualize it for them and they can see it and they can, you know, you have that good looking estimate, it's gonna go a long way. As opposed to just some contractor that walks in and gives them, you know, a handwritten quote kind of a deal.

Right. So the presentation's always a huge thing, but usually when it comes to like these big ones, like Nick touched on, or I think it was Nick, was it Nick or Pete that said, you know, they might call you six months down the line. Right? They have that though. It's theirs. It's in their email, it's in everybody's email.

They all have that so they can refer back to it. And one of the things that I like most, even on the residential or the single family homes is, and as well as the multifamily homes, is the ability to see what they're doing with your proposals. Like inside of that client's account, you can actually have a visualization over when and how, when, and timestamp when they've opened up your estimate.

So you can, if you haven't talked to them for four months on the HOA side of things, you can still just get in touch with 'em and touch base and kind of, you know, see where you're at if you have any questions kind of a thing. So it gives you a little bit of a leg up when it comes to that being that contractor that actually reaches out and shows that you care on the retail, on the residential side, like the single family home side.

There's a big difference with the turnaround time, right? Like nine times outta 10. Most, most homeowners, if they're looking to get a brief done, it's within a couple weeks, right? So you send 'em out. That quote on that side of things, that visual presentation, that, that Nick's favorite word, robust proposal goes, goes a long way.

And I, and in my area, um. Like my speech lead is one of my greatest assets and my presentation aspect is one of my, is one of my greatest assets, right? My proposals are, took me a couple hours to fit, to do, it wasn't that big of a deal. I went to Canva, added in some stuff on into my proposal and my estimates when they go out to homeowners, their leaps and bounds above everybody else's.

And then going back onto the, the bigger projects, it's the same thing. You have to have that visual side of things. It just helps with that whole presentation on the selling side of things.  

Pete: Yeah, I know one of the things that when I talked to Simpson Roofing, one of the things that they specifically talked about was the flexibility of the, uh, you know, of the proposal tool and how it allows them, because the commercial jobs that they do are so unique a lot of times that you can't just, you know, it's not just a.

Cookie cutter deal where it's a very similar thing over and over again. Like every product, every uh, job is gonna be so unique in, uh, what it needs, you know, from a material standpoint, what it needs from a size standpoint. You know, like you said, this one may need scaffolding, may need all kinds of special stuff, and so the ability to quickly build.

A one-off proposal, more or less, uh, you know, was a huge asset to them, uh, just as much as the templated, uh, portion, you know, like the being able to use templates on the residential side. Uh, you know, they could quickly spin up a, a one-off proposal for the commercial side that was very detailed and, uh, you know, was easy to pump out.

Didn't take a long time for them to build it. So, uh, that was something that they noted, uh, you know, around that presentation as well.  

Nic: Yeah, that's a big thing when you're talking about speed to lead, speed to lead's. One thing for residential contractors, but do you wanna blow someone's socks off? Maybe the Roofr Masterclass socks with mine and Pete's face on, which is not terrifying at all.

It does not. At. Just gonna say that, but, uh, I just want that, I  

Pete: just want that graphic back here. Now with our heads all over it,  

Nic: we'll just get some stickers and put them in between them. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, there's one thing about being speed to lead for residential, but you wanna blow someone's socks off.

You, you provide a speed to lead with detail that you can do with Roofr in a commercial bid, whether it's a pitch commercial or we're talking a flat Roofr commercial that's gonna be. Bleeps and bounds. So you're talking about what we, we've said in the past, you're 40% more likely to win the job if you're the first person in the door.

'cause everyone's gonna be compared to you afterwards. Imagine having that on a commercial job when you know that everyone after them are gonna have like word docs with some photos, kind of like pasted in crudely. But you're gonna have your product specs, you're gonna have your documentation, you're gonna have shingle schedule, checklists, all that stuff in there.

Dumpster drop sites. You build that all in there and add it in like Cam does for his clients, it's going to set yourself apart from the start, and every single person has to get to your level to win that job. So that's how you put in value and leave behind value. So when that board is looking at that, that quote versus everyone else's, you're gonna stand apart.

Cam: And Pete said it too, the whole customization aspect of it, right? Mm-hmm. Like it's not, you said it Prince, it's not cookie cutter, right? They look at it and it's been tailored. To them specifically. Right? And then that's shows them that you actually care enough to sit down, create that proposal, and it's their proposal.

Not everybody's proposal.  

Pete: Yeah. And I like the fact that, like Nick touched on it, you know, the, the visual aspect, right? Like you have the ability now to put photos in there, you can annotate them. So it becomes like having this like inspection report, which is a huge piece of the, like the initial walk of a lot of these roofs, right?

Is uh. You know, what are we looking at here? Like what do we got going on, you know, in the inspection piece and now how easily it is to build that out inside of Roofr and even incorporate it into the proposal. Uh, you know, and then Nick mentioned our document builder coming as well. So the ability to utilize that tool, uh.

To be able to pump out things like inspection reports. It just leverages that really well. Uh, more so on the commercial side. I mean, I know a lot of guys still do inspections on the residential side, but it's a crucial piece on the, you know, on the commercial side for sure.  

Nic: Yeah. Not to mention that your time like cam, how long does it take you to do it?

Like, say we are talking about a large flat Roofr. How long is that taking you to do a full inspection measurement and everything? Like about an hour, maybe more  

Cam: to do a full inspection on a flat Roofr.  

Nic: You're thinking cut tests. You're thinking about the rolling the wheel around getting the perimeter measurements, checking out the heights of the parapets and everything else.

You're looking at what hour, two hours on site.  

Cam: If you're being really thorough and doing what you're supposed to do, then yeah, a couple hours. I.  

Nic: So imagine cutting out that measurement part, right? Having that measurement already dialed in. So you go up there, you already know the scope quick, taking a look at the parapet heights, understanding that where the obstructions, the HVACs, the drains, the, the scs, everything else.

And then doing the quick cut test, taking that down from two hours, hour and a half, down to half an hour, 20 minutes, so you can get. Quote out in that same time, in that time extra, give it to that customer and onto the next inspection too. So when we're talking about replicability, this is gonna help you and your reps really scale your your process very quickly.

Pete: Yeah. And I think that's a good transition into the flat Roofr side of it. Right. So let's talk a little bit about the. Flat Roofr side. I think, you know, uh, like I said, we ran this survey. We asked a lot of questions about how much commercial roofing that these guys were doing, what type of work they were, uh, tackling.

And most people said both, right? I think it's an opportunistic thing. You know, if, if the flat Roofr potent, you know, some type of a flat roofing job presents itself, these guys are gonna tackle it. But obviously. Noticeable, very obvious differences between, uh, you know, quoting and also the materials involved and everything.

So speak a little bit cam about how different it really is and um, you know, some of the challenges that you face when you transition from a residential Roofr to a flat Roofr commercial job and, uh, you know, how are you guys are handling that potentially with Roofr?  

Cam: Materials is always, is probably the biggest thing, um, depending on what you're doing.

Up here we do E-P-D-M-T-P-O mod bit four ply, right? So having those already, you can have a template built out and then you'll, you know, there's a little bit more on, be honest, there's a little bit more legwork when it comes to creating a flat roofing. Estimate for somebody because you might have on one job three inches of iso, and then you have to double stack on the next one of your iso.

So you guys have six inches plus fiber board and protective board and all these different things. But you have an EPDM template built out with your basics in there. You need to add something new based off the specs from the architect. You add those in there easily, simply, but your template's already built out, right?

You have your MSDS sheets in there, and you can do your walk around, you can take your pictures of where you're gonna be putting this bin, because that's gotta be fenced off. If you're doing, um, for ply, you've got, you know, your kettles and all these different things. So all those different things come into play when it comes to creating an estimate for a homeowner.

But what most people don't realize when it comes to actually doing flat roofing is the size. Of what needs to be done because it's not just remove some shingles, put your ice and water in your underlayment and move onto a section. There's cutting, removing those, what we call them, checklists, just sections of whatever you're cutting off and then putting them into the bin, sending them down the bin.

Your guys are moving. There's machines that are up on top of the Roofr. There's stuff that's gotta be fenced off. You've got your safety rails. There's all these different things. You've gotta have your bump lines, like there's a significant amount of. Stuff that has to go into that day to day, and it starts at six o'clock in the morning and sometimes go to, I mean, we spent 12, 14 hours on roofs.

You'd be there for six o'clock, seven o'clock at night, and then you have to deal with that on top of the fact that your guys have been working 12, 14 hours a day and the hot sun and the fatigue starts to set in. So there's, yeah, there's a lot that's involved in. Then you have to deal with, depending on where you're at, some people don't like the smell of the material that you're using, so they're complaining to you and they're yelling at you from the ground and people are trying to come up your ladder to stop.

It's, there's so much that's involved in flat roofing. I'm not trying to scare anybody away from it. I mean, you're looking at the difference in dollar amount is substantial as well. Right. But the more money that you're gonna be making in that job, the more. Responsibility and the more work that you're gonna have to put into that.

So there's, there's a significant amount of stuff that has to go into fly roofing.  

Nic: I remember my first commercial project, and it was a shopping center, like a big grocery store that was around, what was it, around, close to a thousand square. And the scope of work being a project manager on that job. Was so intense and it was so stressful going from doing like multiple commercial, like large family, uh, HOAs and stuff like that to going to one single building, but that big and to Cam's point, sectioning them off, making sure those are waterproof.

What, what's going on with the substrate? I get down there, there's some rusting and, and, and pitting in that corrugated steel. I gotta go replace that now. Like, it just levels upon levels and it's so much more complicated. So you wanna make sure that you're prepped for that. Uh, so do your homework. Make sure you have everything in there.

Great tip is adding your safety plan directly into that proposal as well. When you're talking about those bump lines, you're talking about overhead lines. You're talking about your, your, uh, your, your railways around railways. Gateways around to make sure that everything is safe in there, and even the loading areas.

Where's those that, that your supplier gonna come in and drop those, uh, that material on the Roofr, where are safe areas that you can drop that, you know, that there's a, like load bearing beams underneath it and everything else. So there's a bunch of levels that you've really gotta be sure with to make sure that you're set up for success there.

Pete: Yeah, and I think, uh, you know, one of the things that comes to my mind when you guys are talking about all this stuff is checklists, right? The ability to have these. Task related checklists inside of Roofr, right? And to have these things so that we don't forget stuff, right? So that we're making sure that we're on top of every single detail because.

Let's be honest, you know, especially if we're new to this, it would be very easy to forget to check something like that, like Nick said, like placement of material on a Roofr, right? And if we're not dialing that in, it could create a massive issue for us. So, you know, having these checklists and taking the time to set them up so that when you guys are on the job, they're not missing stuff.

Um, you know, and we're making sure that all of our bases are covered and we're safe and we're protected and, you know, we've done all of our homework and, uh. So I think it, that's a huge piece of Roofr that, um, I think people could leverage in this situation that would make this a heck of a lot easier and make it run a lot smoother than trying to just flat out remember the stuff.

Right.  

Nic: Yeah. That's a big difference there. And like if you're trying to build this stuff out, I'll share my screen and we can kind of go through it. There's a bunch of different ways that we can kind of help out on the commercial Roofr. And Maurice asked a question there about measuring it. So I have, I just found this.

Place. I don't know what this building is, but, uh, somewhere in, uh, Buffalo. So I went in there. If we go down to the street view, you can kind of see what it looks like. I'll, uh, spoiler alert, take a quick picture of this for the, for the future, but building it in, you wanna have the ability to attract those property owners, those HOAs, those building owners, and, and get them in the door.

And one good way to do it is our instant estimator, building it directly into your site so that it flows. And yes, our, its Instant Estimator also works for commercial. So if you were to go in here and a customer were to type in that address and type it in, it's gonna zoom in directly on that building there.

Residential or commercial. Box it out. Talk about separating yourself from the competition here. And then we're gonna say that there's flat on here, it's commercial, so different flow than we normally have gone through on this. And we can kind of go through the same questions. If you haven't uh, seen the Instant estimator in a bit, we've added a bunch of questions that you can kind of turn on or turn off and reorder.

I have them all turn on here. 15. 15 is too much. No one's gonna sit around for 15 questions. Sweet spot, six to 10. But I wanna show you how this works. So we went through this. We could say that the roof's 10 years old, that there is some leaking, that there's no insurance claim. Hey, maybe I'm interested in putting some solar on the Roofr.

Uh, currently on the Roofr is TPO and I would like to go back with TPO. I'd like to get it done now. Interested in financing? Sure. I don't know if they'll finance a $200,000 Roofr, but, uh, there you can go here. Yeah, SGO might, uh, we go through here, same flow happens. We tease 'em a little bit. They put in their information, tell us where they heard 'em from, and now everything that you offer there shows up.

Now, a big thing that Pete's always talked about is the repair and maintenance option. You could also do that on something like this here by putting in a price per square and having ranges in there. Financing or no financing, uh, you could have that built in there, a little contact card about you. And you can have coatings.

We could have, uh, TPO mod bit, so maybe this person's interesting. Interested in a bunch of different options here. You could even have your latest projects from company Cam and your socials in there, and what's nice about that? Is we know that that's gonna send them out some information. We know that we're gonna get that information back into our job card with the customer and everything built in.

But now we have a different kind of flow to go through. To answer Maurice's question, we can very easily just measure that out directly from here. And guess what? It doesn't matter how big it is, it could fit in there. It's that one single building that's going to be 13 bucks. It's gonna back, get back to you if you're on the elite one in under two hours, guaranteed.

Typical timeline is going to be around that, uh, 45 minute to an hour mark on there. So you can have that built in there. And then the other way of doing it is that DIY tool. So talk about Pete and Cam, like how good this is to kind of get this in that quickly and get that detailed version of it off the bat from the incident estimator.

Pete: Yeah. You know, I, I mean, I dealt with a customer who, when we first, uh, were doing proposals and stuff like that, who, um, he creates proposals for ski resorts mm-hmm. In, uh, the, you know, in, uh, Midwest area, uh, Canada, or not Canada, Utah and Colorado in that area. Right. And so he was having issues with some of the other measurement tools, not being able to get the whole building into the, uh.

Into the picture and being able to measure it all at once. He was actually having to measure in sections because he was having issues with, uh, the size of the buildings. And so the ability for us to, to measure these buildings is a huge asset. And, uh, like, you know, cam said the speed to lead aspect of it is a, is big.

Um, you know, obviously if you can be the first person in the door, like Nick said, and you've got. You know, details and you've got, you know, all of this, uh, stuff already ironed out. You know, it makes a huge, huge difference. So, uh, Nick's showing you the, uh, you know, DIY tool. What I really like about the DIY tool, specifically for the, the commercial side of it is the repair and maintenance piece, right?

We're probably going in, we're doing a lot of repair work. Maybe we're only focusing on a certain section of a big Roofr like this. We don't have to measure the whole entire Roofr, like we can just measure a section up and uh, you know, and be able to quote just that piece. To be able to roll that into a proposal and repair and maintenance is a huge, huge piece of the commercial side of the, of the world here in roofing.

So, uh, I really like the DIY tool to feed that specifically. Uh, cam, what do you think?  

Cam: The D Well, yeah, like you said, if you have a lot of repair and maintenance, but especially on these bigger jobs, when it comes to something, let's say like what he's doing now, the size of that Roofr, most places, unless you're a multi-billion dollar company or you gotta help a couple hundred million dollars in in the bank, aren't gonna replace the six, $700,000 Roofr at the exact same time.

They're gonna do section on section on section. So having the ability to do a DIY. You do a section of the Roofr, you get the measurements for that. You create everything that you need to create for that, send it off to them, and then that section is done. And then a month or two later when they have the money to do the other section, then you can measure out that new section kind of a deal.

So you can, like you said, break it up and create proposals for different sections of the Roofr to get it done.  

Nic: Yeah, really opening up that door to allow you to have a little bit more flexibility is gonna be a key thing there. Multiple sections is great. Maintenance contracts are great. These things, you wanna provide options.

You don't wanna just go in there like a bull in the China shop and just saying, yeah, this is gonna be like 200 or 400,000, whatever the case is. Pay me or don't pay me, sign me or don't sign me. Like that's not gonna get you that job. If you provide those options, like, Hey, we can do building section 1, 2, 3, or four or all of them, number one, or we can provide some maintenance on some stuff there.

Provide the inspection report that you can build in there as well. This will allow you to be a lot more attractive to that customer to show that you're not looking for just getting money out of them and you're opening up the door for like a more healthy conversation with everything as well.  

Cam: Yeah, so compromise on getting the entire job done as opposed to working within their budget basically.

Right, and that's, yeah.  

Pete: I think having the options here is a huge, huge piece to the ultimate success of winning some of these jobs, right? Like, uh, like Nick said, it's not an all or nothing thing a lot of times with these commercial routes because of the size of them, like Cam said. So, you know, having the ability to build in those options easily, it makes a huge difference.

And how you can present this and how you can potentially win this job and, uh, you know, possibly win the whole job, right? It may take time over time, but, uh. Uh, it definitely opens the window there to be able to do that. So, um, you know, really like that, that DIY tool specifically for that reason.  

Nic: Yeah, you could really open that up and you can actually pull something in directly from here like this.

Find that flat roofing template that you wanna use and provide that education and transparency. Do the work and get that, that template already built, built in there. So it's gonna be easy for everything and get everything moving through it. So as you can see, I created 1, 2, 3, 4 different options on here for the coating, the TPO and the mod bit.

There was a pitch Roofr here, so I'm just gonna go in here and type in metal. 'cause there was a bit of a, so I can pull from a different template in here as well and pull all those values in. So you can see that all these different options are in here for that area as well. I'll, I'm, I'm going a little aggressive with it, so I'll delete some of these outta here, but right off the bat, I'm able to get everything kind of built in for it so the customer can see the value of doing this properly with the standing seam option that they had there.

As you can see, all my values have been pulled over directly, directly into this so that we have values on all of them, exactly how much it's gonna cost, plus upgrades options here, everything broken down right across the board for what they're looking to do. And even a Roofr maintenance option. We can add in that measurement very quickly into this as well.

'cause you wanna provide that extra, uh, standpoint in there, that extra support and everything else. So let's just quickly grab that here. And add this in. Now, I don't wanna show them everything on that page because there's gonna be some stuff that, as much as I say transparency in education, there's some things that we wanna hold close to the vest so they don't shop around our numbers completely.

So a great thing about this is the branding aspect of it, showing them everything that's broken down. But maybe I'll hide the, the sections for the, the square count, the total summary and the material page. This presentation's gonna look very beautiful. We can pull stuff from the file manager if I have something broken down in there.

Let's just do one last thing and actually update that cover image. 'cause we really wanna shock them in awe of them, so I could replace it with that screenshot that I took earlier of the actual side of the building as well. So, uh, there we go. Add that in. Now they can see exactly, it's their building. This is a customized flow.

I'm gonna change this layout to make it even more pretty like this. And now I'm ready to preview and send it. So now as a customer, they have everything about it. They have a nice opening, they could see their building, their logo in there. We have an about us section to sell on your value and the value of you as a company before you sell on the value 'cause of the product.

Different options kind of ranging, right? So we have silicon coating option, the TPO. A mod bit replacement. You can see all the pricing and the upgrades are always there. Roofr maintenance option broken down 'cause it's actually getting it from that, that cost there and everything else. Now they have a build your own Roofr section.

We have about us sections when it's building out about the TPO, the silicone. So we could talk about the product, the quantity, the color, the. The, the functionality, the specs, any photos marked up and annotated directly from that there. And any contracts you need, especially big thing with the commercial, I don't think we brought it up, cam payment schedules, you're floating.

You're floating a lot of money, guys. It's like a big time investment. So it's not just you. You go into it, you gotta know that you're gonna be floating money for a bit and you're gonna have to buy a lot of material. Have those payment schedules written in stone where they initial and signed, decide it so that you're protected.

Then even have that Roofr report at the end so the customers can see this. View this. You can track their views, you can send automated follow ups, and they can go in and just select the options that they want and go through it very, very easily. So you can see how they can select one or multiple of these options here and go through it and say that they want it signed.

And you can have multiple signers on this as well, and allows you to kind of go through, make sure that everything's dialed in the way you need it to be across that board there.  

Pete: Yeah, and I think the biggest thing to note right here is how quickly you just did all that. Right? Like what did that take? I think I was watching it for three or four minutes, right?

For you, yeah. To go from that DIY measurement, like actually measuring it to creating a proposal that was ready to send to a homeowner or to a, you know, a board, let's say in this case. Right? So just an incredibly short. Shortening, shortening the amount of time, uh, that's needed to, to produce these documents.

You know, 'cause obviously like we talked about, you know, there's a lot more like customization. There's a lot more like one-off stuff happening here, uh, in commercial roofing. But having even, you know, if we're just pulling that template in as a baseline, like Cam talked about earlier, you know, pull that baseline template in and then just do your modifications right from there, you know, and you're probably reducing your time.

You know, significantly, probably by more than half, you know, so, uh, cutting it by more than half. So it's, uh, yeah, it's, you know, I think that that's really the biggest takeaway of this is, you know, hey, there's a lot more detail that goes into it. Easily tracked in here, right? You can stay on top of everything.

And then having the ability to create these really nice presentation styles that are the ones you need really to win this type of business, and being able to do it in a timely manner. Uh, you know, and not having it being a super labor intensive process of, like you said, handwriting something or typing something out.

You know, we can pop these things out pretty quickly and, uh, you know, be the first one to the table with a really good quote.  

Nic: Yeah. And it's gonna help you, it's gonna make your times more valuable. You'll be able to capture new and prospective leads there with the instant estimator, with your social posts.

Diversify those, right? So create some for residential, create some for retail, create some for commercial. Talk about property managers and building inspectors and send out your postcards and your business cards with your QR code built in there for that instant estimator. It's not gonna just work for your residential and and pitched Roofr, but it's gonna work for those commercial ones as well.

There's a lot of ways that you can really tie everything together to get out there, get your name known, and really open up that door to the possibility of it. But I think the main thing that we wanted to, to like, great, our tools can definitely do that, but we wanted this to be educational as well. It's like, it's not turnkey, it's, you gotta make sure that you have your ducks in a row that you know what you're getting into.

You have that bank role and that capital kind of set up, whether it's through a funding, uh, through a bank or a partner or whatever, or through, uh, your company itself. And make sure that you're set up for success. 'cause that first one you do well. Kim, like, do you remember the first time you did a big commercial job and how many referrals you got after that from that same property manager or builder?

It was a few. When they find someone good that they can trust and it went off without a hitch, or let's be honest, little hitches, because there's always gonna be a problem that comes in, but the way you handle it, the professionalism, the communications and stuff like that, you're gonna flow through it.

They're just gonna start handing you jobs, hand or fist, and a lot of times. Uh, cam might have happened with you. I know it's happened with my dad and some other roofers that I know they'd had to be like slow, slow down. Like, thank you for all this opportunity, but too much here. I'm not about to go full into this.

I have other jobs and other customers to deal with as well.  

Cam: Yeah, and like you said, property managers talk to each other, right? Like as cutthroat as every industry is, they talk to each other and if they find a good Roofr, they're gonna recommend that Roofr to another, to another property management company.

And it's just gonna turn into. You'd be a $20 million flower roofing company before you know it, who knows. Right.

Pete: Well, I love it. A lot of great insight here, guys. Uh, you know, we're getting close on time here, so, you know, what would you, what would you guys say is like the, probably the biggest takeaway for anybody that's maybe currently using, doing residential, looking to move into commercial? Uh, what would be the one takeaway that you would tell them?

Cam: Whew. Prepare. Mm-hmm. That would do your research, but prepare.  

Nic: Yeah. That's awesome.  

Pete: Do your  

Nic: homework right. Do your homework, and then like, prepare doesn't mean just like getting ready for the job, but make sure that your ducks in a row with your, your, your, your tech stack as well. Having something with Roofr that can keep your cost down on those measurements, being able to capture more leads with that instant estimator.

Being able to open up all those doors there, that kind of thing, and being able to quote effectively and strongly and being, uh, comfortable with your presentation and visuals. I always say when we first started building a Roofr in the proposals, the big thing that kind of triggered it for us is that I. I was a pretty good salesman when it comes to roofing sales.

I was pretty darn good. Better than Cam for sure, top five. Uh, but, but not better  

Cam: than  

Nic: anything. But looking into that and, and, and, and knowing that I was losing out on jobs sometimes because, not with what I said and the value I presented in person or over the phone, but the value that wasn't left behind on a quote.

To a couple decision makers sitting at the kitchen table after I talked to them. So they're looking at my quote and someone else's that looks similar to it, but maybe their price was 4,000, $5,000 less. If it's commercial, maybe it's $10,000 less. And how am I leaving that value behind that? I'm gonna do something different than them.

So we build out a proposal that leaves value behind. So with everybody else here that's looking into getting into commercial or already doing commercial, want to figure out that next level. Making sure you have your ducks in a row with software, with presentation, with education. That stuff's gonna really make a big difference there as well.

Pete: I do, uh, yeah, I would say, I would say as the process guy, get your process dialed in, right? Like, take your time to set up your process. Like we talked about checklists, uh, you know, like get the details down. Make sure you got all your bases covered. Make sure that you know whoever's gonna be, whether you got project managers involved, crews involved.

Make sure that everybody knows what that needs to get done. They can easily see it. There's a lot of transparency around it. Right. And, uh, you know, just make sure that you've got all your bases covered before you go diving into it so that it's not one of those situations where like Nick's or like Cam, I think said in the beginning, you know, you quote a job for $200,000 and then realize it's a $300,000 job and you're stuck holding the bag, right?

We wanna make sure we protect ourselves against that, uh, by, you know, just being detailed upfront and, and making sure the process, uh, takes care of all that stuff for us.  

Nic: Yeah, that's a big part there. Um, I'm glad that this was informative for people. I'm glad that we'll be able to watch this later and stuff like that too.

So appreciate, uh, cam coming on. But we have a winner of the cool socks that Pete and I are both. Scared of and want very bad. Uh, Jen, in the background, we haven't received our socks yet, so I was gonna say,  

Pete: just to note, someone else is receiving their socks before Nick and I are receiving the socks, so  

Nic: based on there.

Yeah. But, uh, the winner right here. So, uh, Jen will reach out in the background. Uh, Ronnie Lipt Castro. Someone might need to help out with my pronunciation there. Um, but apologize for the mispronunciation. But, uh, you won the socks before meeting Pete. We're, uh, we're sad, but we're That's great.  

Pete: All right.

Well thank you Cam for joining us. Thank you everybody for jumping on. Hopefully, like I saw some people say very informative, so I'm glad you guys saw some value in it. I think it's a lot of great, uh, insight here from the guys and stuff. So, uh, if you guys, like Nick said in the beginning, uh, we one on for one of the first slides.

If you guys ever have questions about any of this stuff, feel free to reach out to Nick and I if nothing else. Um, you know, if we can't help you, we can at least point you in the right direction. So, I'm just Pete at Roofr. He's Nick at Roofr minus the K 'cause he doesn't like. I guess, I don't know.

Maybe a Canadian thing. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. They don't like ts, I don't know. We don't have KS  

Nic: in our alphabet, actually. So it just, do you not really? No, we do,  

Pete: but it's at the end because they

NZ.

Yeah, so, uh, feel free to reach out to either one of us. We can point you in the right direction. But, uh, otherwise thank you everybody for joining us and we'll see you next time on the Roofr Masterclass.  

Nic: See you guys. Thanks Kim.  

Cam: Thanks for having me.