Branding Your Roofing Business to Stand Out

pete (00:02.75)
Hey everybody, welcome back to The Roof Report. I am your host, Pete McKendrick, and I'm here with the best branded roofer in the business, Ben with Roof Tiger. How you doing, Ben? Nice to have you.

ben_morrow (00:14.763)
Good to be on here with you.

pete (00:16.59)
Yeah, excited for this one. So let's start off, I guess, with the most obvious question for me. Where did Roof Tiger come from?

ben_morrow (00:26.29)
So my dad used to call me Tiger when I was a kid. So go get him Tiger and Roof Tiger developed from that. My dad and I started the business together with partners. And the name Roof Tiger, essentially what I found in the roofing industry when I started studying it was that everybody was felt and looked the exact same. So I actually just took every element of a roofing company and flipped it backwards.

ben_morrow (00:56.71)
and then have white trucks with your logo. So the name itself, Roof Tiger, sounds different. It's more catchy. It's like Facebook, Snapchat, Roof Tiger. And so it's easy, it rolls off the tongue. People can remember it, but then it also has to do with my family. But the whole identity came from wanting to be different and not wanting, I think white trucks are a disease. And so Tiger Striped Trucks was the very first kind of inception of the business.

pete (01:25.99)
Nice. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think you guys have done a brilliant job with the marketing, obviously, in the in the branding part of it. And, you know, it's interesting that you say that because I do think so many people come in here and, you know, like, so I used to work for the CRM and then here at Roofer, you know, we're dealing with hundreds, thousands of roofers, right? And you see so many names that get repeated over and over and over again. Right? There's every state's got the same roofing names, just repeated. And so it is it is nice

ben_morrow (01:26.721)
Yeah

ben_morrow (01:31.471)
Thank you.

ben_morrow (01:44.35)
Yes.

pete (01:56.11)
kind of stand out, do something completely different. And how valuable has that been for you when it comes to name recognition locally and winning business?

ben_morrow (02:05.59)
Extremely going back to your last point Pete. I think a lot of people they're afraid to step out of the industry because they want to be taken seriously So they're like well, what do what do really good companies do and they just kind of copy that but make it their own? I took the exact opposite approach where I was thinking 80% of people actually don't trust contractors initially and so I wanted to stand out in a really good way Also contractors when you step out like that you have to back up you have to talk the talk and walk the walk

like mine, if we, if not executed correctly, could, could actually become the largest problem in the industry. Because like, hey, that tiger stripe guy is a, is a turkey. You know, he's not good. So it's the exact same concept. But you, so I just believed in our team to deliver a really exceptional product and therefore was willing to do the marketing at a high level as well. As far as value goes, roof tigers extremely valuable. The name recognition in the area,

pete (02:43.272)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (03:05.57)
passenger seat Pete and drive you around the city and you were just to watch other people and how they respond to it. It's amazing. People will literally stare you down for a half mile as you drive. So they're so intrigued by this. If I drive by a schoolyard at recess time, everybody drops what they're doing and watches me drive by. So the value of that is that not only are we well branded,

pete (03:25.65)
Thank you.

ben_morrow (03:35.55)
you know, that's never seen. Yeah.

pete (03:36.47)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That's funny, you know, back in my CRM days, I worked with a contractor, I think he was out of Atlanta, and his business was pink gorilla roofing. And I was like, that is so random, right? And it's this big gorilla, this muscular gorilla, and like a pink tank top. But I was thinking like, from a branding standpoint, that's brilliant, right? Like everybody sees the pink gorilla everywhere, right? And, you know, like he becomes very recognizable in his local area. You know, his branding stands out,

ben_morrow (03:48.15)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (03:54.092)
Thank you.

ben_morrow (04:03.934)
Yes.

pete (04:06.61)
different than the rest, like you said, than the people who have been repeated over and over again. And, you know, as funny of a name as it seemed at the time, I was like, it's actually brilliant. I like he actually did a really good job of separating himself from the competition.

ben_morrow (04:11.535)
this.

ben_morrow (04:19.87)
Yes, I also was very careful in the beginning when I thought of the name before I came up with a logo and we designed it. I had another designer who helped me kind of create everything the assets. And I was very careful not to be too aggressive in my marketing. If you were just to Google the word tiger, tiger logo, a lot of them have their, I'm very careful to not have the mouth of the tiger open. This is getting like very specific. But what I find in the roofing industry since we're predominantly male, a lot of guys want to be ultra aggressive with their marketing.

but actually females make most decisions at home. So you wanna be very careful not to be too aggressive in your marketing because females will be responding to your brand all the time. Families, like families buy houses. So I think it's very important not to be too all alpha male aggressive. It'll actually work because people will be afraid of that more so.

pete (05:14.11)
interesting. So obviously you took a very calculated approach to this. So let's go back to the beginning. Where did you come from? Because obviously you weren't born in your life. Maybe that's not the best way for me to put it, right? But but obviously you didn't come, you know, you weren't born in, you didn't grow up thinking like, man, I want to be a roofer, right? So, so where did where did Ben start? Right. And then how did you get into roofing?

ben_morrow (05:15.213)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (05:18.913)
Yes.

ben_morrow (05:27.939)
Oh.

ben_morrow (05:38.03)
I'm an alien to the industry. I love it. I actually got my start in construction services. I worked for a local contractor doing bathroom remodel and it was, it's the bathrooms, the exact same thing. It's the same problems. So I worked there for three and a half years. I had really good mentors in the business that kind of helped me understand how to make money in construction. And I started coming up with ideas for them to kind of do. They let me run with some stuff, which is really healthy. When COVID happened, everything changed, right?

pete (05:52.394)
Sure.

ben_morrow (06:08.21)
for two weeks. This is my first exposure to the roofing industry. This was like early 2020. And this guy's like, hey, if you find leads, you can sell roofs from insurance claims and then insurance pays for the job. And I was like, this is crazy. And I worked for this guy for two weeks and I was passing him referrals for my family. And when the actual construction process took place, there was no communication. The wrong color was chosen for the roof. Nails were left all around the roof.

furious. I flipped out. I was like, this is the worst customer experience I've ever had in my life. And then when I called them out on it, it was like, you guys need to fix this. They played it off, like it was no big deal. And so I was beside myself. So I immediately quit and I called my friend and I was like, man, I think we can do this and become a really strong roofing company if we can take advantage of the weaknesses of the industry and just do the opposite of. So we came up with the

ben_morrow (07:08.47)
And as I say, the rest is history. One of the biggest differences is I changed my name, as you know, on Facebook to Benjamin Tiger. And I personally started branding myself as the Tiger. And just like the Tiger trucks being kind of cohesive to the culture of Peoria, where I'm from, Benjamin Tiger on the internet, like the persona that I've created is the same personality. It's like a playful nature. It's fun. It's engaging. I wear ridiculous clothes, which is actually who I am.

pete (07:36.41)
Right.

ben_morrow (07:38.29)
But I feel like when I name myself that, when I actually changed my name on Facebook, it became this thing to me. Where it's like, I can kind of step into this role of being a cheerleader and a flag bearer for my company. And then the exact same concept with the Tiger Stripe truck that it's so different. It's like Benjamin Tiger can be that same person online. I'm talking in third person, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah, that's the same concept.

pete (08:00.91)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, well, I think you touched on something that's really important. And I think, you know, like we hold it very close here at Roofer is the customer experience, right? Like, you know, however, if, if you don't know how Roofer started, if people don't know how Roofer started, right? Like we were a marketplace. We facilitated the, the sale between, you know, the customer and the contractor. So we got to see both sides of it. And we got to see the experience that the customer was having. And that's when we realized like a lot of this process is broken, which is creating a horrible customer experience.

ben_morrow (08:12.15)
Yes.

ben_morrow (08:27.071)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (08:33.95)
Thank you. God bless.

pete (08:34.15)
from a quality standpoint, from a speed standpoint, contractors are not organized, and how do we pivot and how do we help the contractors to make their life better and easier so that they can go out and offer a better experience ultimately to the customer. And I think that that's a piece that for a long time has been missed in this industry. And I think like you said, like we talked about even before we started recording this podcast, is that we're seeing this change in the industry. And I think people are realizing like, now's the time to get together and figure out

ben_morrow (08:39.278)
and the

ben_morrow (08:48.571)
Yes.

pete (09:04.25)
make, how do we change the image of the contractor? Then how do we make a better experience for the customer? So, you know, how, how important do you think that has been to your success that you guys kind of changed the game there and said, Hey, we're not going to do it the way all the other contractors do it. We're going to do it completely the opposite, right? And change quality and change the experience for the customer.

ben_morrow (09:07.733)
Yes.

ben_morrow (09:20.35)
Well.

ben_morrow (09:27.03)
Yeah, that's really important, Pete. And Rufa, in my experience, has been not only from the product standpoint, but from the customer service, your guys' staff, the way you take care of your contractors. You're one of my favorite partners to work with because of that mentality. It's like, you guys do things right, but you also have a culture that obviously believes that. How important is it? It's incredibly important. Entrepreneurs are problem solvers by heart. And if the product wasn't broken,

rate, copy it and make it your own, right? But the product is not great. 80% of people don't trust contractors. So why are we trying to fit into an industry that's broken? I think people are scared to do things different, like I said, because you're out on a limb. And people will laugh at you. When I first started, I was driving these Tiger Stripe trucks around the city before we made one sale. And contractors would look at my truck and literally laugh.

But now those same contractors are calling me for work. So I'm very empathetic to the customer experience. And if you just study the problems and then make solutions as part of your company culture, that's it. It's as simple as that.

pete (10:45.55)
So I think this is very interesting because normally, you know, when we have conversations with contractors, they're guys that have been in business for, you know, 15, 20 years, they grew up in roofing, you know, like even our CEO, Rich, he started when he was 12, he's grown up in roofing. So it's, it's interesting to me that you guys are fairly new, right? Like you guys are in the way we think about roofing companies, you've been in business, what this is your third year? Right? Right? Yeah. So your third full year and you guys have obviously found success.

ben_morrow (10:54.116)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (11:03.692)
Oh yeah.

ben_morrow (11:08.27)
Yes, this is starting year three.

pete (11:15.59)
talk about how, you know, in the roofing industry, the failure rate of new roofing companies is something insane, like 90% of the roofing companies don't make it out of the first year. You know, what do you guys think have been the key things that have allowed you to really find success so quickly in the first three years, and that maybe is being missed by a lot of these other roofing companies that's causing them to fail so early on?

ben_morrow (11:25.413)
Yes.

ben_morrow (11:39.67)
I talk about this a lot, Pete, where the product that we sell is not actually the roof. Okay? When I had my experience in the bathroom industry, I really found five key components to a sale. You have the lead generation, you have the sale itself, you have pre-construction or planning, construction, and then follow-up slash financing. Five stages. Roofing is only 20%. It's one of those things.

ben_morrow (12:09.57)
four out of five, I'm 80% there. Which is how we started. I really didn't understand roofing systems when we first started, but I know that I could find people that were really good and they could help train me on this process about to build something. Roofing is not that complicated. There are a lot of new nuances to it, but there are a lot of people like ABC Supplies and a great partner of ours, they're fantastic in helping us find solutions to problems. So if you can just find somebody in that fourth category,

at the four out of five, you're so far there. And guess what? The consumer complains about the four other stages far more than they do about the one, the actual roof. So it's like, man, we're spending a lot of time focusing on the 20% when we should be spending more of our time on the 80%. So to answer your real question at the very end, how have we found success focusing on those four out of five and then having roofing teams come alongside of us

pete (12:59.05)
Yeah, it's a great point.

ben_morrow (13:09.57)
actual roofing, which now we have partners that are fantastic roofers that work with us every day.

pete (13:16.33)
Well, I think it's an interesting point, you know, because I think as a roofer, you know, I inherently you would think that's the piece that most roovers would do strongest, right? Is that 20% piece that you talked about, right? They potentially come from a roofing background. They probably have been in it for years. So the production end of things producing the roof, putting the roof on is really going to be, you know, their bread and butter.

ben_morrow (13:26.492)
Yes.

pete (13:46.61)
figure out the roofing end of it. And I think the same goes for everything else, right? For those other four components, you know, we're in an industry of people that have become very successful and have figured out all five of those components and you have an opportunity to lean on them and learn from them. And I think it's drastically underutilized.

ben_morrow (13:48.65)
Yes.

ben_morrow (14:05.85)
Yes, totally agreed. And when you first start a company of baking cookies, for instance, let's just use that as an example. If you're an excellent cookie baker, your first week in business, you quickly find out that baking cookies is like the easiest part of your business. It's everything else that becomes really hard. So from my perspective, I've never put on a roof in my life, Pete, and I never will, but I am determined to be the best marketer, lead generator in our industry. Like I want to be that guy that's like,

pete (14:21.516)
Right.

Yeah.

ben_morrow (14:35.95)
I can then do anywhere. If I were to move to St. Louis, Missouri, or Orlando, Florida, or you name the city, I could do this exact same strategy and stand out just as much because no one's doing it. And I could, again, come alongside roofers in that area to do the same thing. So, roofers that don't focus on those other four components, I think that's the reason you fail quickly is because you can't replenish the business that comes into the front door. Really, lead generation in sales has to be your primary focus in the beginning,

you just will never get enough momentum to make it past.

pete (15:09.79)
Yeah, and I think there's so many great people in this industry that understand that piece really well. You know, so take advantage of it. That's not your thing if you're not a salesperson, right? Surround yourself with people who are good at it and learn, right? And I think that, you know, I think traditionally in this industry, you know, contractors are a prideful group. They don't want to admit that they don't know something. And, you know, I think that holds them back a lot of times because of it. So,

ben_morrow (15:14.335)
Yep.

ben_morrow (15:21.371)
Yes.

ben_morrow (15:30.134)
Yes.

ben_morrow (15:34.75)
I really agreed. I know nothing about technology in the depth that you do as far as like, you know, the depth that Roofer is, but I don't have to know. You just know, if you wanted to sell me your product, you know just 10% more than me, you can talk to it way more than I can understand it. So it's like, from the sales process perspective, it's the same thing for my consumers. They don't know anything about roofing systems. They're just trusting that I'm going to take care of them. And it's like, that is the piece that we really need to focus on.

you brand your company, focusing on a trust minded like mindset is like super important. Even going down to the detail of the tiger opening its mouth that if it's too aggressive, maybe that seems a little bit too aggressive and it's not as trustworthy, right? Those things I thought about before we even started and I think that's the way when I developed this for 90 days before we started, those details are now showing to be very valuable three years later. So it's kind of like a farmer planting seeds. Those first that first

is like, you know, ultra valuable.

pete (16:39.27)
Yeah, well, I think you bring up a really good point, right? And the fact that if we're selling a roof, right, the roof is only a very small portion of it. And it's really the portion that the customer probably knows the least about and feels the least comfortable talking about. So the important piece is really selling yourself, right? And selling your company. And like you said, building that trust factor and building, you know, that comfort level with the customer so that at that point, they trust you that you're going

ben_morrow (16:52.271)
Yes. Yes.

ben_morrow (16:57.971)
Thanks.

pete (17:09.33)
when it comes to the actual roof product, right? Because they believe in you as a roofer.

ben_morrow (17:11.433)
You got it.

You got it. That's exactly right.

pete (17:17.47)
Yeah, and I think that's a piece that I think is missed. You know, a marketing guy once said to me, which I thought was one of the most impactful things we were talking about, marketing and websites. And he said, no matter what your website content is, the most important piece of your website is the about us page.

ben_morrow (17:34.71)
Yeah, that's probably true. It's like, what's your culture and how will people perceive you in the marketplace? When I drive these Tiger Stripe trucks around and we have a second company called Solar Panther that's doing solar, it's the same concept. I'm seeing, I think some people are like, well, I want a business vehicle, but I want to go home and change it to my personal vehicle because I don't want to be seen in the public when I drive this thing. This is my personal daily driver. I drive it everywhere. And I'm very cognizant of that because when I go out to a restaurant

pete (17:36.031)
Right.

ben_morrow (18:04.71)
the waitress, I'm very cognizant that I represent a brand that's bigger than myself. When I go get my hair cut, when I go to the grocery store and I'm wearing my clothing, people know that brand now. So every interaction that I have with the public is essentially a trust. Can I trust you? And the more you...

pete (18:20.91)
Right, yeah, you're just constantly building that foundation, right?

ben_morrow (18:23.83)
Yes, yes. It's like this tiger guy did this. They don't even know my name. That's okay. But this guy is trustworthy. I will give him my grandma's number to go fix a roof. It's like, that's it. That's the answer.

pete (18:35.87)
Well, and we often talk about being, you know, five mile famous, you know, being a popular person in your own neighborhood. And one of the things we talk about is exposure, right? Like, and this speaks to that factor. It's like, the more people see you, the more they start to feel comfortable with you. Like, oh, I know that guy. I see his trucks all over town, or I see him, you know, in his roof tiger stuff at the grocery store, right? So then they start to remember you. And, you know, like I always tell the story, I live in a small town in New Jersey and we have a Facebook group for the town

ben_morrow (18:42.034)
Let's.

ben_morrow (18:54.013)
Thank you.

ben_morrow (19:06.154)
Yeah.

pete (19:06.23)
and once or twice a week, you'll get somebody that will ask, you know, like, hey, do you guys have a roofer you recommend? And it's the same roofer that dominates the comments every single time because he's the most visible guy. You see his trucks all over town, he's a local guy, he's established himself, he has respect, he has trust, you know, and because of that, he's winning jobs just on referrals, you know, through Facebook comments because, you know, because people just know, they don't, sometimes I think people don't even know who he is.

ben_morrow (19:30.292)
Thanks.

pete (19:35.99)
people comment and say like, well, I see his signs everywhere, so he must be good, right? He's all over my neighborhood. And, you know, so he's, you know, so I think that that speaks, you know, volumes to how important it is to just expose yourself all the time, right?

ben_morrow (19:42.25)
Yes.

ben_morrow (19:51.43)
Yeah, give me one sec, Pete. I'm going to move over here. My Wi-Fi may be a little bit laggy. I want to make sure that.

I'm gonna move right next to the Wi-Fi. There we go. One sec.

pete (20:06.007)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (20:08.43)
Yeah, that's 100% right. It's a family portrait here. This is my staff behind me.

ben_morrow (20:22.67)
There we go.

Perfect. Sorry about that.

pete (20:27.013)
All good.

ben_morrow (20:28.57)
So I totally agree with you. It's constant. It's the machine. Some people call it a flywheel, which I appreciate. It's like, let's call it six flywheels on a stick. It's like a truck wrap. It's merchandise, like t-shirts and sweatshirts. It's your yard signs. It's your office setup. We have two very big LED signs above our doors. It's multiple ways to catch the customer to say, oh, I think I know that person,

pete (20:36.016)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (20:58.55)
familiarity brings trust. And so just yesterday I was at a sale from a referral. They had a couple bids before me come in. I pitched my price. I didn't reduce my price all that much. It's just, it is the price, but they're like, hey, this person trusted you, therefore, I will trust you as well. And I'm sure you're gonna do a great job. Those leads and those, that way of doing business is the most powerful, the least expensive, and the more viral.

community with you and all of a sudden you can count on them to give you more referrals. So that's the way we've done business since day one. In the beginning it was very difficult because you just have to create that momentum. But I think the Tiger Truck specifically helped us build it because it's something so unique that nobody was doing. So it was like that initial spark they caused.

pete (21:52.29)
And I think it's interesting, right? Because we often get asked, we have a lot of new roofers, right? Roofers is a product that, you know, because of our price point and because of how simple it is to use, we get a lot of new roofers, people that are new to the business, people that are, you know, young, let's say, first year companies. And a lot of times we'll get asked, like, you know, for advice on, you know, hey, you know, I'm on a really tight budget, where do I spend my money, you know, and you get all kinds of different suggestions, you know?

a podcast with Latif and he talked about, hey, if you are just gonna buy like one piece of software, buy an estimating tool so you can stand out, buy a product that allows you to write nice proposals. I find it interesting that you guys went the route of buying, of using it for branding right away, right? Like you branded yourself first and then worked your way into like your marketing. Cause I think, you know, so many times people are just like, oh, you know, like I gotta get, you know, I gotta start running Facebook ads or I gotta hire a marketing company

And so it's very interesting to me that you guys said, hey, step one, let's build a brand, right? Let's build a brand and then build a roofing company off of that brand. You know, and I think that's a unique approach

ben_morrow (22:58.95)
and it's out.

ben_morrow (23:04.95)
I think that a lot of people like to rent things. Facebook is renting. You have to buy it each month, right? You have to purchase leads on Google every month. And it's expensive. It's not cheap, especially when you're starting out like every dollar counts. When you purchase something like a truck wrap and like a truck, you own it. You own the means of the marketing tool. And these truck wraps will last for five years. It costs about $3,500 to $4,000 to wrap a vehicle. So it's actually, it sounds expensive upfront,

but then it lasts for five years and you're getting so many impressions as you drive around. I can also, I was thinking about this today, Pete. I was driving to the office. As I was driving here in traffic, I was getting, you know, our vehicles are ridiculously bright and I'm getting impressions as I drive in here, but I'm not even thinking about it. I'm not thinking about marketing. It's marketing itself. So it's like getting rent paid for a renter if you own the house. You're thoughtlessly making money.

I'm thoughtlessly creating impressions. And when you multiply that, now we have seven vehicles wrapped in two trailers. These things are everywhere all the time. People will message me on Facebook, I see you guys constantly. And it's like, that is on purpose. I don't have to necessarily pay Facebook or Google. Our cost to marketing is less than 2%. And so Benjamin Tiger, the avatar I've created online,

pete (24:19.65)
Yeah.

pete (24:30.35)
and I'm very grateful.

ben_morrow (24:34.65)
content and I pump a ton of it and so that gets us free exposure as well. People reach out to me, hey, can you do this for me? Can you do this for me? Of course. Then I connect them over my team. I am a lead generation tool as well as our trucks.

pete (24:49.15)
very interesting. Yeah, because I think that, you know, I think so many people think in order to get leads, I'm going to just have to pour a ton of money into marketing. And you guys have done completely the opposite, right? You guys have proven that you can do it with a very small budget, right? From the marketing side.

ben_morrow (24:56.55)
That's right.

See you next week.

ben_morrow (25:02.45)
see. It's either that Pete or it's door knocking, right? And we door knocked in the beginning as well, because we had to we were forced to. But I knew from a lifestyle perspective, I know I don't kind of door knocking is kind of like a macho thing. It's like, if you're not door knocking, you're, you're a sissy, you know, that's kind of the mentality. But I knew for a fact that I will not be forced to door knock. I will not I'm not gonna do it. I'm sorry, I'm not that guy. I'm not that guy. I am

pete (25:06.155)
Right.

pete (25:18.918)
Thank you.

pete (25:29.172)
Yes.

ben_morrow (25:32.53)
to create a business that will feed itself essentially. But I'm not the guy to go out and knock doors to my fingers bleed. I'm sorry. Call me a sissy.

pete (25:45.351)
So I've got an interesting question for you. Three years in now, looking back from the beginning, what are some mistakes that you've made that you're like, man, if I could go back and do that again, we would not do that, right? Cause I think that happens to everybody, right? And I think that it's great insight for people who are starting in roofing, you know, maybe they're in year one, or maybe they're even a sales guy thinking of breaking out, starting their own roofing company. Like what are some things that you look back on? And, you know, not necessarily regret,

ben_morrow (25:56.45)
I'm a million.

ben_morrow (26:12.35)
there. Save money. Don't spend it all. Don't hire employees unless they're absolutely necessary in the beginning. That's very valuable. I quickly hired people that we didn't necessarily need at the time. I quickly spent money on things that I thought were super valuable but turned out to be not so valuable. And so I'd say save money more often be very conservative with cash flow. When your first winter hits, we're in a winter state here in Illinois and

pete (26:13.45)
things.

pete (26:39.65)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (26:42.69)
December to February, March. And so you've got to hibernate for a few months. So save cash, don't hire employees too quickly. And then I'd say don't look at the industry for the trend. Don't look around for people that don't copy people. Do something original because 80% of consumers don't trust roofing companies. Therefore, you should be able to stand out and do something different.

pete (27:11.53)
Yeah, and I think that that is really well said. I think that, you know, so many times, there's so many little things that you can do, right? Like you don't have to do major things to stand out from the competition. Because like you said, the contractor is already a bit, there's a bit of a lack of trust there anyway, right? So earning that trust is fairly simple, right? Looking professional, having a good brand standing behind your brand, building that trust factor by being having that exposure. You know, these are simple things that you can do. They

ben_morrow (27:27.371)
Yes.

ben_morrow (27:31.035)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (27:37.213)
Yes.

pete (27:41.45)
they often get overlooked by the roofer. So a question for you along the lines. Oh, go ahead.

ben_morrow (27:48.755)
What do you think Roofer, why has Roofer been so successful since their inception of growing the people that are really loyal to your brand versus the other competitors?

pete (28:02.23)
Yeah, it's interesting, right? So I, one of the things that I do at Roofer is I actually teach a class to all of our brand new employees. When they come in on day one, I teach them a class called Roofing Industry 101 and I introduced them to the roofing industry. And in that conversation, I talk about how Roofer has become as successful as it has become in such a short amount of time in this roofing industry.

pete (28:32.43)
that we handle people, the way that we talk to people, the way that we interact with the roofers, but it's the people that we have inside and the fact that they all care about what they're doing. They all have the same goal. We want to change the roofing industry. We want to create a better product, create a better industry, you know, build a community for the roofers where they can learn. You know, like we just had some conversations internally about solidifying the knowledge of

pete (29:02.23)
our entire staff more about roofing so that they can become more of an authority and almost like a consultant for the roofer rather than just a support person or just a success person, which they're fantastic at it. But I always say, I came from CRM. I was a contractor before and then went to a CRM and now a roofer. And as a CRM, I could talk to 10 different roofers a day and get a glimpse into their

ben_morrow (29:09.25)
Yes.

pete (29:32.39)
You know, so by default, just by Osmosis, you become this like roofing expert on what works and what doesn't work. And probably these customer success folks in the industry are probably one of the most underutilized knowledge bases, I think, of any group, you know, because they are in so many roofers' businesses.

pete (30:02.15)
employee operation is a complete crap show. I'm seeing it all. I've seen it all and I've seen the opposite too. I've seen huge organizations that were like well-oiled machines and how do they get there? What have they done to be super successful? So I always say, you guys are, I tell the success team all the time, like you guys are roofing experts. Maybe you've never roofed in your life, but you've become roofing experts just by understanding how a roofer works

pete (30:32.29)
And seeing what works and what doesn't, you know, and I wish roofers would take would leverage them more I wish they would lean on these guys more like business consultants But you know, I always say to our guys it's the people right the people are what makes your business And uh, you know, I think that we've done a very good job from you know I always think back to matt radford when I was at the crm The only person I knew at roofer was matt radford, right because he was everywhere Like people for the longest time thought matt radford was the owner of roofer, right?

ben_morrow (30:32.435)
Yes.

ben_morrow (31:02.03)
Matt Radford, that dog at him. He's got that dog at him. I love him, man. He introduced us to Rufus. Yeah.

pete (31:02.541)
So

pete (31:05.85)
Yeah, he really does. Yeah, he really does. But yeah, yeah, I mean, he did a great job. But you know what I mean? Like he's really what brought Roofer out and made it a household name. And then, you know, the rest of us have kind of followed behind and been able to do the same thing and put ourselves out there and be a resource for the Roofer. But yeah, I think, you know, if I had to put it on one thing that's made Roofer successful, I mean, obviously, the product has come a long way.

ben_morrow (31:18.471)
Yes.

pete (31:35.75)
product is where it is because of the people that we have even behind the scenes. Right? If it wasn't for those people doing an amazing job, you know, getting the product to where it is, the people, you know, the group of us that are outward facing would be nowhere near where we are. You know, we wouldn't have as much to talk about obviously, but, but yeah, the people as a whole, it's just a, it's an incredible culture and it's an incredible group that we have here.

ben_morrow (31:47.292)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (32:00.93)
It's an interesting thing that you're saying the exact same thing that we that I am and we are in completely different products. My product has to do with literally nails to shingles your product is a technology system and CRM and measuring tool and probably so much more in the future. Years are going to develop and do great things. But you're saying the same thing that I am. It's like the quality of the people that take care of the communication of the pre set up the sales, the marketing, which is Mad Redford.

And the back end finances, it's like, these are the things that actually make a business. The product itself, the Rufa report, it's great. But anytime I have a question about a proposal that I need or you name it, Rufa is there to help me. So you're absolutely right. It's the people and the culture that create the business, not the product itself.

pete (32:51.97)
Yeah, I think it my question to you is so you started a business, right? And you said your dad is your partner, correct? Who was higher number one for you guys? What was the first position you hired for?

ben_morrow (32:59.283)
Yep.

ben_morrow (33:04.91)
Sales. Yeah, you bet you. My best friend Adam Cole, shout out. He did over $2 million in sales this last year. He is a very strong sales guy, but he's not the alpha muscular, like in your face sales guy. He is very much, I call him the Labrador, the golden retriever. Anytime he walks into a room, people love to talk to him. And he can coax things out of people that they weren't planning on telling him, right?

pete (33:06.55)
sales.

ben_morrow (33:35.29)
He's just one of those talkable guys. You're just like, I want to talk to this person. So he would soak up all this information and say, hey, listen, I think I can help you. Here's the product that would serve your needs and bam, make the sale. And I think he's one of the best salesmen in the industry because he's flies under the radar in a sense. He's not this guy that's braggadocious or too aggressive. It's just people love him. And that's what so he's grown our business. So that wasn't a one hire.

pete (33:37.47)
Right.

ben_morrow (34:04.89)
roof tiger beginning was those three. Um, and then we hired, um, a couple of other people for foreman, um, um, on the backside. So really taking care of the job site once it's, once it's ready to go and then say, Oh, obviously.

pete (34:14.435)
Yeah.

pete (34:19.97)
Yeah, so, and how do you guys, how important was developing a process early on, right? So I'm a CRM guy, that's my background. Obviously we're building a CRM at Rufor, you know, as we speak here on this podcast, you know, so I'm a process driven guy. I've always been a fan of the process and how important it is to the operation. And how did you guys early on, you know, how early on did you guys really like set a process, you know, write it down and be like, hey, this is what we're gonna do.

ben_morrow (34:31.258)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (34:39.855)
Yes.

pete (34:49.99)
people into this.

ben_morrow (34:51.45)
day one. Uh, it was day one. So my experience in the bathroom industry really gave me the insider scoop to what goes wrong during a construction process. It's passing off from pre-planning to sales, to sales, to pre-construction, pre-construction to construction, then it's passing through a chain. So if you have a missing a week link at some point or a broken link for communication or process, everything breaks down. And so from day one, I knew that I put it up on a giant whiteboard and I literally took a piece of paper and said, okay, this

How do we go through and pass this on to the next person? What will you say? How will it be communicated on the platform, et cetera? And so from day one, we were actually working on it. I read an article that Kobe Bryant back in the day, somebody walked in on him shooting, it was either before or after a game, and he was all by himself, and he kept doing the same three moves over and over and over again for like hours.

game supposed to be something, you know, like super flashy or working on this or that is like, I want to do these three moves so well that my brain just turns off and I do it automatically. And it's just so natural. It's like that is what we want. In the process of I want one person doing a specific process over and over and over again. So they just get so good at it. It's the Henry Ford assembly line method as well. It's that same concept of having one person develop a skill set.

months in the process or like, Oh, I didn't know about this and I'll tweak their process to catch that. So, uh, once you have that people become super successful. They get confidence in their, in their job. And then all of a sudden you had this well old machine of just assemble line type movement.

pete (36:39.07)
Yeah, it's super smart. I mean, I remember reading an article, you know, I lived in Florida for a long time. And of course, Tim Tebow down there is like a legend to us, you know, and so I remember when he went to the pros, they were complaining about the way he threw the football and he said, I'm just gonna change it, right? And I remember reading this article out how he was working to change the way he threw the football and they, in the article, it was saying that the muscle memory takes 2000 times

ben_morrow (36:47.613)
Yes.

ben_morrow (36:54.134)
Yes.

ben_morrow (37:08.35)
Wow.

pete (37:09.81)
And then it becomes unconscious and then it'll just like you said how Kobe Bryant was doing the same thing He was literally doing it until he made it an unconscious thing And I think that speaks to the process right like if the process is there and your team is working in that process that assembly line type of Scenario over and over and over again. It becomes unconscious Right, they just do it things just happen right and then like you said and then you just identify the opportunities and you tweak them and fine

ben_morrow (37:11.55)
Wow.

ben_morrow (37:18.613)
Yes.

ben_morrow (37:30.812)
Yes.

pete (37:39.05)
year, then, you know, going into, you know, having kind of this cowboy effect of where it's just kind of a free for all. And you don't know what's going on and things are getting lost and confused. So yeah, so I find that very, very interesting that you guys went in from day one with that idea. And I think that speaks to your success, right? Because, you know, like at RoofCon, I did a breakout session and I talked about the process

ben_morrow (37:49.628)
Yes.

ben_morrow (37:57.85)
Yeah.

pete (38:09.05)
they had ever written down their process on a piece of paper. You know? Yeah, yeah, and I think it speaks to why we struggle to be successful in this business, I think, as a whole.

ben_morrow (38:12.099)
Wow, that's telling.

ben_morrow (38:21.09)
Totally agreed and my team set like unconsciously says that now if we discover that a problem if a problem happens more than one time Most of the time it's a process issue. So Previously in other businesses, you've probably been a part of cultures this way. It's nothing against people. I've worked with in the past It's just this is I think human nature when a problem comes up. It's very easy to quickly blame the customer for the issue

ben_morrow (38:51.17)
It's this or that. If that happens so many times that you're saying it every week, it's not the person or the people you're serving. It's you. And so your process needs to change because something's broken. So I have a very low threshold for complaints to customers because ultimately those are the people that pay our salaries and pay us money to do what we do. So it's like, I have a very low threshold for complaints and I have a very high tolerance for complaining from, from customers.

ben_morrow (39:21.27)
Hey, sounds like something went wrong. I need to help here. Don't I? They appreciate that and so and then once that problem solved you go back. Hey team What happened here? Was there a breakdown in the process or was this truly an anomaly?

pete (39:27.27)
Yeah, absolutely.

pete (39:36.61)
Yeah, I like that. Yeah, and I think that that's so overlooked, right? Like there's an obvious difference between, like you said, anomalies, like performance issues or something like that, and an actual process breakdown. And I think so many times, we don't look at the process first, right? Like we don't look at the process and say, hey, did the process breakdown? We immediately want to point a finger, oh, that salesman can't sell or, you know, our production manager is terrible and that's why jobs are backing up, you know, or the customer is just crazy and that's

ben_morrow (40:03.371)
You got it.

pete (40:06.55)
with the customer, right? And there's so many ways we can, so many excuses we can use, right? Instead of just saying, you know, hey, maybe there's a breakdown in our process and maybe we need to take a look at what the issue is and sort it out on our side.

ben_morrow (40:11.95)
It's

ben_morrow (40:19.75)
So true, I started, this is kind of a personal story, but I'll tell it, I started dating, so I'm actually, I was divorced four years ago, and it was a very big turning point in my life. And anyone who had ever gone through that process before knows how painful it is, and knows how stressful it is, and knows how it's just extremely life-altering.

ben_morrow (40:50.01)
and on dates, I would go see other divorced women. And the conversation would quickly turn into my ex was this and my ex was that. And you'd both be sharing these pain points with each other and it's like, there is something to be said for that because there's certain situations that are wild, but when you're going through that and you continue to hear that, I thought to myself after a date, this is dumb.

I think I have something that I need to change internally. I think that there's something that I need to work on to make myself better. Maybe the both of us need to get together and actually internally look and say, I think I could actually communicate better. I think I could actually set better expectations. I think I could be more present. I think I could work less and be home more. These things are like so hard to say out loud and so hard to actually think about yourself, but it's so valuable to be like, whoa, here's the problem.

ben_morrow (41:49.25)
To go through your whole life and to constantly bicker and complain about everybody else's issues is a very sad way to live. And there was a short period of my life where I did that. And when I woke and came to, everything changed. And it's like, whoa, Ben, you can actually change and be the owner of your life versus being swayed by every situation that happens on the outside world.

pete (42:12.77)
Yeah, I think it's an interesting story, right? Cause it conveys very well to being the owner of a company. I think, right? Like so many times we don't want to admit that maybe there's shortcomings in ourself as the owner, right? And I think it's the people who realize they do have shortcomings and then surround them with people that can help them with that, that are successful.

ben_morrow (42:24.091)
You got it.

ben_morrow (42:30.47)
precise. Yes. Yeah. Staffing is so important for that reason of getting people who bought buy into that culture of like, Hey, there's a problem. Let's go find a solution. What's the solution as opposed to here's a problem. Let's throw our hands up and complain. And it's like, if we can all adopt this strategy of, okay, what do you think we should do? What do you think we should do? Let's come to a common solution and let's go with that. That is so much better of a way to operate and the customers will appreciate that so much more than complaining all the time.

pete (42:59.614)
So you guys have taken on solar now. So what's next for for roof tiger and solar panther? Where do you guys go from here?

ben_morrow (43:06.23)
We're going to be here for a while, Pete. I think we have a lot to affect in the next two, three years. I'm a, as ADD as my brain is, I'm very much a man of sticking consistently with two things that are high profit margin, high revenue, and perfecting those two trades before moving on. I've had multiple ideas for a cheetah business,

ben_morrow (43:37.431)
But for right now, it's going to be the Kobe Bryant method of perfecting roof tiger and solar panther down to a well oiled machine. I think we're a good year away from being exceptional with roof tiger, and I think we're a good two years away from being exceptional with solar panther. But we are well, we have our staff set in place where it's just now it's all about learning and perfecting that process.

pete (44:03.15)
I like it. Yeah, and I think you know, I think that's another mistake that roofers often make is they get into it And when they do find a little bit of success, they start to look for you know What else can I do right and I see so many of these guys that like diversify? You know next thing you know, they're doing siding and I see them out there doing fencing and like all these random things, right? Like oh, I can do drywall repair. Sure. You know, like your roof had a leak. Let's fix the drywall next thing You know, they're practically a GC, right?

ben_morrow (44:04.394)
Yeah.

ben_morrow (44:20.155)
Thank you.

ben_morrow (44:29.15)
the SRIB.

pete (44:33.27)
inside of what you guys have figured out how to do and just keep fine-tuning that to get better and better at it. Before you move on to the next thing, because I think that's often overlooked, right? I think that's often something that we think, oh, we got this. Let's just go add something else to the mix here.

ben_morrow (44:39.15)
Yep.

ben_morrow (44:50.45)
True. Solar came from getting so many calls about it, but also understanding the industry. I come from a solar background. Solar has the exact same problems as roofing in a lot of ways. The warranties, how you structure the business is very different. How you install the solar panels is different, but the problems are the same. There's a lot of fly by night contractors that are not building local trust, and they're coming from out of town, they're coming from out of state. Business is closing and opening.

actual so bringing a stable,

pete (45:34.75)
Well, very good, man. Well, I appreciate you coming on. I don't want to keep you all day here. I'm sure I could ask a million questions, but yeah. So I really appreciate you jumping on here and chatting with us today. I think some great stuff. I think with you guys being so early on in the business still, I think it's great insight for new roofers and folks coming into the business to just learn from what you guys are doing. And so I really respect what you guys have going on

and appreciate you guys using Reaper and taking us along for the ride with you. And yeah, I look forward to seeing where you guys go with it.

pete (46:28.05)
Thank you, man. All right, I appreciate everybody joining us today on the Roofer Report, and we look forward to talking to you next time. Thanks.

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