Repairs, Not Re-Roofs: The Strategy That Built a $2M Business (with Michael Hill)

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Speaker 1

This wonderful long game that wasn't planned. It was unintentional. I want to build a legacy for my kids because I was working, you know, 12, 16 hours a day in front of a computer, just never present. My kids were young at the time. I did not want that.

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Speaker 2

You're listening to The Roofer Report, the ultimate podcast for roofing professionals, business owners and entrepreneurs. Get insider access and hear about the highs, lows and tales of triumphs from thriving business owners. Brought to you by roofer, hosted by Pete McKendrick.

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Speaker 3

All right. Welcome back, everybody to the Roofer Report. I am your host, Pete McKendrick. As we continue our our trek here, our journey on the roof of the month. I mean, it's been just a phenomenal thing for for me personally to go down this road. You know, we were doing a lot of podcasts on a lot of different subjects and a lot of different guests from the industry.

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Speaker 3

And then we kind of came up with this idea to do the roof for the month podcast and showcase a roofer every month, and it's just been great for me to kind of like, hear the stories and get some people on that probably aren't on a lot of podcasts. You really get a lot of genuine stories. So excited for another one here today.

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Speaker 3

And so, you know, happy to be joined here by Michael Hill of Boise Roof Repair. So excited to have you, Michael. Thanks.

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Speaker 1

Oh, thanks for inviting me. I'm super excited to be a part of this podcast. Never been on a podcast before. So this is a win.

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Speaker 3

There you go. Right. Like I was saying, you know, I think that the roofer of the month has been phenomenal for that. You know, so many times we you know, you look at a lot of the podcasts in the roofing space and they're the same guest kind of being recycled over and over and over again. And they're the guys who are, you know, been on a ton of podcasts.

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Speaker 3

They're really polished. They they know what to say and how to say it. You know, and I think sometimes you lose that, you know, it's not as genuine. Right? If it's something you've heard him say on another podcast or something like that. And I think the majority of people that we've had as roofer of the months have been, you know, people that are first time podcasters, you know, that are on our podcast.

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Speaker 3

It's the first podcast they've ever been on, just really, you know, once they kind of get into the the groove of it, it really makes for some great stories. And, you know, it's kind of some good, fresh content. So man, excited for you to be on today. Glad this is your first one man.

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Speaker 1

Yeah. Super excited.

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Speaker 3

Yeah. So congrats on be for the month. That's a you know, something that we started about a year and a half ago. And it's been really cool to showcase some guys that are using our product and doing some really cool stuff in the industry. So congrats on being a roofer of the month with us. And, you know, excited to dig in a little bit.

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Speaker 3

So tell people who don't know you or the company a little bit about you. Like tell us a little bit about Boise Roofing. You know, how big of a company are you guys? How long have you been in business? Tell us maybe even a little bit about your market. You know, for people that maybe don't know Boise, Idaho, much as a market, like explain to us a little bit what you guys have going on there.

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Speaker 1

I started my career in the insurance industry, so I worked 15 years in the insurance industry. Ten of those years I was in in the claims back in 2012, I started doing side hustles. I was doing exterior work, trying to get some extra money. That's when I had my kids started needing a little bit more cash. Then Covid hit.

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Speaker 1

Covid hit. I'm just crushing in the insurance industry. I'm a lead adjuster, have company car, you know, company cell phone. And it just kind of broke me down eventually. And I decided in 2020 that I was just going to step away and just pursue the roofing industry full time at that point. And that's when I started my career as a as an owner operator, Boise Repair and Maintenance.

00:03:18:16 - 00:03:40:04

Speaker 1

Initially, when we started operating, I wanted to maintain kind of a small operation, so I was 100% repairs. I was strictly doing repairs, doing 200, maybe 300 a year and just crushing the market for the first year and a half, and to the point where I was only company out there actually focusing on repairs. Boise's a really retail market.

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Speaker 1

We don't have any wind claims, we don't have any held claims, we don't have a lot of insurance work. And the ones that we did, we got a lot of people coming into the market, new companies that were just door to door knocking, doing retail, doing insurance claims. So it left me a wide open market for me just to focus on repairs on 2021, kind of midway through the season, some of these companies or customers that I did repairs for a year prior or like, hey, can we get a roof replacement now?

00:04:09:02 - 00:04:33:13

Speaker 1

My neighbors are getting ready for placement, so I just completely shifted from doing about 100% repairs to maybe 80% repairs, 20% to now 5050. We do about 50 roofs a year. So we're still in that kind of that small market, 50 replacements and maybe 100, 150 repairs every year. It's me. I have a small crew, and then I have one salesman.

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Speaker 1

A couple of years ago in 2023, we had two sales guys. We went up a little bit, but that was a little bit too much stress for me. Like I like maintaining kind of that small operations, which has been great. We're doing about $1.52 million a year in sales, 100% retail.

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Speaker 3

Nice. Yeah. This is interesting, right? Because I think that, you know, traditionally a lot of companies you talk to go the opposite route. Right. They start in retail re roofs. Right. And they're reroofing. And then they, they realize like oh there's some money to be made if I run some repairs, you know, not every job is going to be a roof.

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Speaker 3

So maybe they bring on a few techs or they a lot some of their crew to be taxed, and then they start to run kind of a side hustle, you know, as like a, you know, to, to bring in some other income. They'll run some repairs. And so some people don't like some people just don't go to do repairs at all.

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Speaker 3

And like you said, a lot of times depending on your market, it may be a wide open opportunity because there aren't a lot of guys doing repairs. Right. And so it's interesting that you kind of took the opposite approach because I think, you know, for me, I mean, I think that's a really interesting way to kind of like really learn the business, right?

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Speaker 3

You're doing you're not having to deal with huge ticket items and all of the things that come along with doing complete reroutes, right? The size of the crew, the amount of money that's flowing right, like you can you can do these smaller ticket items, you can do a lot more volume. You can get on a lot more roofs, learn a lot more stuff.

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Speaker 3

So it is a really interesting approach that surprisingly more people probably should take. Right is it's a fantastic entry into the market.

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Speaker 1

Well, even now when I work with companies, because roof companies who are strictly like insurance door to door and they're still there, they're still calling me like, hey, can you do this repair? Can't do this repair. I have this customer. Yeah, I can still do that. Repair. People forget. It's like it's playing that long game. Like, I know if I do this repair now in 5 or 6 years, they're calling me, which worked really well for my business.

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Speaker 1

And I struggled to it because in 2024. I mean, last year, 2025 even, it was a very slow year in our market. We didn't have anything going on new president, new election and just kind of died down for us. But I was still getting these calls from people that I did repairs for five years ago, four years ago.

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Speaker 1

And they're like, hey, you know, we're selling our house. We need a roof replacement, or realtors are calling me. Hey, you did some repairs for me in this other house a couple of years ago. Can you come over here? We need a roof replacement. And it just gave me this opportunity where I was just building this huge network of clientele, knowing that I came out there, did work, and now they need a roof replacement.

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Speaker 1

So this is very this wonderful long game that wasn't planned. It was unintentional.

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Speaker 3

Yeah. No, it's super smart, like you said. Like you build. You know, you're touching a lot more roofs this way, right? So you're you're dealing with a lot more customers. There's a lot more volume, which gives you the ability to build a bigger network, a bigger footprint, faster. I think that if you're just a straight reroofed guy, you know, like you're probably on.

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Speaker 3

What did you say, 200, 300 roofs, you know, in the first year of business? I mean, that's crazy. And what a lot of people don't realize too, is that the margins on repairs are much higher. Right? So you're actually making more money if you're doing repairs.

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Speaker 1

It's kind of funny because so many of these companies don't who don't do repairs. They don't know. They don't know how to bid them correctly. So some people are just over bidding things that are just, you know, they're not they're not thousand dollar jobs or $300 jobs, whatever they are, or they're $500 jobs, or they're coming out there and giving like, oh, we get somebody out there for 150.

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Speaker 1

It's like, that's a $5,000 job. That's a big repair, like, and just missed the market. So just built so much more. I guess so many more people started respecting me because I was like, no, giving them the right price, the right cost. This was going to take it's going to take me an hour or whatever it takes to do this repair, and I'm going to make $500.

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Speaker 1

It cost me $25. You know, I'm doing a pipe, whatever it is.

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Speaker 3

No, I think it's really interesting, right. Because it gives you the ability to be very attentive. Right. There's probably not a lot of backlog. Right. You don't have a long lead time like you could probably you guys are probably getting out there very quickly, which then for your long like you said, playing the long game now your reputation your reputation is, you know, hey, these guys are going to be there when I ask.

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Speaker 3

Like they're going to be quick, you know, they're going to be attentive to what I need, you know. So you know, that establishes a much different long term image right. Long term brand representation. Then potentially someone who comes in starts to do full roofs and then maybe gets overwhelmed. And now you've got this big backlog like I was at, I think it was at Roof Con.

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Speaker 3

I was speaking and I asked about backlogs, and a person raised their hand in the audience and said, like, ours is like three months. You know, they have like this three month backlog. And I'm like, that's not good. Like, that's not that's not good business. Like, yeah, that's fantastic that you guys have that much work. But from a customer standpoint that's not great.

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Speaker 3

You know, like that's not a great thing for your customer to have to deal with.

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Speaker 1

So no it's not. It was actually it was kind of one of those blessings when I started transitioning from doing 100% repairs to doing reroofing, because we were actually getting backlog on repairs where we're, you know, six weeks out. And I was like, hey, we can do this. We're six weeks out and they're like, it's leaking now. I was like, yeah, we're six weeks out.

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Speaker 3

Yeah, I don't know what to tell.

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Speaker 1

You through these a day. Like I'm doing this every single day. And when I start doing transitioning to replacements, I was able to kind of like, hey, we just can't do your work right now and obviously allow me to sell replacements, which was also a win, because then I was I could build those in the days I'm doing repairs, I'm doing repairs.

00:10:09:02 - 00:10:37:19

Speaker 1

These days my crew is going over there doing a replacement. I have very little time that I need to be on the job site to monitor this, and so I can go off and I can do two replacements and do for repairs the same day. And oddly enough, those repairs are paid my crew. And so my replacements were full, just 100% profit because I was doing these repairs or, you know, 2000 $3,000 and doing these roof replacements for 20 squares, or they're making, you know, $2,000 as winning, as profiting on these things.

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Speaker 3

Yeah. No. Super smart man. Super smart way to do it. Talk a little bit about your experience prior. So you come up, you know, what made you make the decision to leave the insurance side to come over? Obviously, it's not like you made a transition from insurance to insurance. Roofing, like you made a decision to leave insurance altogether, go to the retail market and take on roofing, correct?

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Speaker 1

Yeah, I knew there was a market for it, and I knew there was going to be a market for repairs because I'm from this. I'm from Boise, I'm a native. I was working in the insurance industry and working claims for so long, you know, doing ten, 12 claims a week and new customers. And we used to love getting roof claims because you get 2 or 3 of those a week and they're just they're done.

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Speaker 1

You go out there, you look at it, we have either oh it or we don't. And you get them off the books. And then we're working with like I was a lead adjuster. So I was dealing with claims like 100,000 and $50,000. So if I got to roof, I was like, this is a blessing. I can spend two hours on this and I get out of here, I can write a check and never talk to these people again.

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Speaker 1

And then I'm dealing with fire losses. People that don't have houses, you know, like additional living expense, like flooded basements, like just nightmare claims. And then our market just started, you know, it was Covid, everything got harder. And Covid, I'm a really good face to face. I was terrible over the phone. I was a terrible adjuster, just awful at my job over the phone.

00:12:00:18 - 00:12:18:08

Speaker 1

I couldn't do it. And so in 2020, I knew there was a market for it. And September 2020 and I just I called my boss one day. I had a great day. They allowed us to like go out and actually do inspections. So I went out there, I looked at four houses. You know, I did a water loss, like a laundry loss.

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Speaker 1

Maybe there's a smoke claim. Then I was driving out to this tiny town and they had a win claim. And I'm just having a great old time, beautiful day. Go to this house by their roof. There's one damage everywhere. It was just wonderful. And I left that house and I called my boss like, dude, this. I'm done. I'm never coming back to this job.

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Speaker 1

Like, this is it.

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Speaker 3

This is it.

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Speaker 1

So I've worked with insurance my whole life, so I didn't have a car. I didn't have a cell phone. I didn't have a computer. I mean, this is all been paid for by the company.

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Speaker 3

For one.

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Speaker 1

For years. All I had was a ton of ladders, a little bit of tools, and I quit on a Friday. I gave my two weeks finished off, you know, maybe 20 or 30 different claims that were just pending. And the following Monday I was working. I knew a network of people, mitigation companies or the restoration companies in the market, and they were like, hey, we got a roof repair here.

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Speaker 1

So I started working the immediate next day I quit. There was no lag time, no delays. I went on Google my business, set up a, you know, a basic business name. That's how it came. Boise roof repair and maintenance. I was like, what? What would somebody Google if they needed something? And I was like 11 Boise. I do roofs, we do repairs.

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Speaker 1

We can do it. Yeah, that was the name of the business. And now I'm just mostly operating under my DBA is Boise Roof.

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Speaker 3

Let's talk about a little bit about the staying small piece because I love this. Right. I think that traditionally, you know, like if you go to any event, you know, and you sit in any of these, you know, breakout sessions or you listen to some of these guys speak like everybody's about scaling and growing and how do we sell more and how do we get bigger.

00:14:02:23 - 00:14:22:16

Speaker 3

And, you know, you've got companies out there trying to franchise their operations and operating in multiple states. And, you know, just these organizations. Everyone's idea is like, we just got to keep getting bigger, right? Like every year we got to get bigger than we did before. And I had a conversation a couple of years back with a friend of mine who's in the roofing space.

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Speaker 3

He owns a roofing company, and he said something to me that has stuck with me for a long time, which was he said, you know, we we've grown very quickly. And he said, you know, we're at like, let's say 15. I don't remember the exact number, but he's like, I think we're at $15 million. He goes, the funny part is I'm I was way happier at like 8 or 10.

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Speaker 3

He goes, and I wish I could scale the business back to that because there was less headaches and it was easier and I was still was profitable. It was making good money, but there was just so much less to worry about. And I really stuck with me. And I thought to myself, like, maybe scaling isn't the answer, right?

00:14:59:09 - 00:15:18:08

Speaker 3

Like maybe this idea of running a $50 million roofing company is not where it's at. You know, and I've had a couple of conversations since then that kind of echoed what he said. It's like, hey, you can run a very successful business and be very comfortable in your lifestyle and with your family and everything, and not have to be a $50 million a year roofing company.

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Speaker 3

So I find it very interesting that you decided kind of from the onset, like, that's not me. That's not where I want to go with this.

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Speaker 1

Yeah, I wanted something that I could build and I can maintain, and I want to be home at 3:00, you know, I want to be with my kids because I was working, you know, 12, 16 hours a day in front of a computer, just never present to my kids were young at the time. I did not want that.

00:15:38:05 - 00:15:58:15

Speaker 1

I did go to that point, though. Once I started doing roofs, I started seeing a little bit more money, and then I started saying, okay, we can scale this. I started adding a couple more cells in there and then it just wasn't for me. I realized even if I was, I went from like 1 million to maybe 5 million or whatever, someplace around there and sells.

00:15:58:15 - 00:16:14:17

Speaker 1

But I was making the same amount of money as I was doing when I was doing 100% repairs, like I wasn't making any more money. If anything, I was losing money. And then I start getting stressed out a lot. Like I was worried like, hey, my cells been, they're not getting paid. How can I get more jobs? How can I increase market?

00:16:14:18 - 00:16:37:01

Speaker 1

How, how do I advertise? How I get my name out there? And then I'm just funneling all these different expenses out there to get people to just notice me. And that's not how I establish my business. So it worked. We're able to get these people a couple of my guys, they were working. They're making great money, you know, pulling, you know, 60, 80 K a year, sells reps and enjoying it.

00:16:37:03 - 00:16:58:19

Speaker 1

But I wasn't I was hating it. It was miserable. So I realized early on that it wasn't for me as a company going making five, making $10 million. It means I'd have 4 or 5 project managers, five different crews going out there, and what you lose is quality. I like to be on my job site. I like watching my crews do the work.

00:16:58:19 - 00:17:21:19

Speaker 1

I'm up there with them every single time I'm demoing the roof with them, I'm watching them do ice and water shield, making sure they're putting the felt on. I'm watching the whole thing. I'm helping them install and feeding them shingles. And what happens is with these companies, I noticed is that these project managers that are selling these houses, they actually they'll come there the first day, make sure their crew arrives and they'll leave and come back the next day to do a walkthrough.

00:17:21:20 - 00:17:44:09

Speaker 1

And, you know, 80% of the companies or the installers are subcontractors, which is great. You know, it's a great way for maintaining cost. Workers compensation is super expensive. You know, it's 33% in Idaho. It's something that makes roofing unaffordable if they're not using subcontractors. But you don't know the quality of subcontractors you have on the job site. So good point.

00:17:44:09 - 00:18:03:12

Speaker 1

So I have this crew. I had this career that I worked for two years. Great crew. I monitor them, watch them, did everything they did. If that same crew worked on another person's roofing company, they would have a completely different product than what I would have because I was there monitoring them. I just make sure lines are straight, drop in lines, make sure I some water, so make sure there's a half inch overlap.

00:18:03:13 - 00:18:22:23

Speaker 1

Hang over the drip edge. Just little things make sure kick out were installed. But that crew was on a different house, different job site. Nobody's monitoring them. They're trying to get that job done as quickly as possible. They're cutting corners and the just the product at the end is going to be completely different. I found that that works better for me.

00:18:22:23 - 00:18:43:12

Speaker 1

So if I was scaling, there was no way I was going to be able to monitor all these jobs. And that was one of my issues. We're doing like six high end commercial townhouses with TPO roofs. I'm doing roofs and, and kind of this older neighborhood the same times. And like there's no way for me to go back and forth and watch them and some of these cutting corners.

00:18:43:13 - 00:19:07:00

Speaker 3

You know, it's interesting. I worked for a company that did home remodels before I came into the tech side of the world. And, you know, we had we were project a couple of us project managers. And, you know, what was crazy about it is, you know, we had so many projects going on that it's like you said, like you would show up in the morning at a project, you know, you spend maybe 30 minutes there and then you've got to go to three other projects.

00:19:07:00 - 00:19:25:00

Speaker 3

So, you know, and two of them are 45 minutes away. So you're, you know, you're putting in as much time as you can before you got to leave and go to the next one, and you're doing the same thing at the next one. And, you know, so, like you said, I'm here today for an hour maybe tops. And then I'm not coming back, maybe till tomorrow, maybe even the next day, you know?

00:19:25:01 - 00:19:53:15

Speaker 3

And in the meantime, the crew, it's kind of like on their own to make decisions and do it their way and, you know, try to figure it out or they're calling and they're saying like, hey, what do you think? Should we just do it like this? Like, you know, you're not able to be there because you end up in a situation, like you said, where you're kind of spread so thin that, you know, it's very difficult to stay on top of the quality because unless you have people like, you know, I've seen some guys able to find some people that they really trust, you know, to, to kind of like oversee those things.

00:19:53:15 - 00:20:14:21

Speaker 3

But even so, like, how many of those people are you going to find along the way? You know, so it's going to be difficult to really maintain all that stuff as you, you know, as you grow. So but yeah, it's it's really interesting. Like you said, I think it's funny, I was listening to a podcast this morning and Gary Vee was one of the guests on there, and he said, you know, they're asking him about like, oh, you've made so much money and stuff like that.

00:20:14:21 - 00:20:31:17

Speaker 3

And he said, it's not about the money, it's about the freedom. Right. And so it's interesting that you said, like for you, that's what it was about. Right? It's about being home at 3:00 in the afternoon. It's about your quality of life. And that's what the business has allowed you to do. It's not about the money. And I think a lot of people lose sight of that.

00:20:31:18 - 00:20:46:03

Speaker 3

Right. Because like you said, you start to see that money coming in and you're like, wait a second, we're at three. We could easily be at five, we're at five. We could maybe be at ten, right? And then that's how the kind of the snowball starts rolling, right? So it's interesting that you were able to take that step back and be like, wait a second.

00:20:46:04 - 00:21:04:23

Speaker 3

Like, this is affecting the ultimate goal of what I want out of this, you know, which is that freedom and that ability to be home at 3:00 in the afternoon with my kids. And so, you know, hats off to you for for making that decision and sticking with it, you know, and not, you know, not seeing the, the cash flow and being, you know, like being like, oh yeah, this is the way to go.

00:21:05:00 - 00:21:07:10

Speaker 3

You know, I think I think.

00:21:07:12 - 00:21:08:09

Speaker 1

I mean, I get it, I.

00:21:08:09 - 00:21:10:06

Speaker 3

Mean, 100%.

00:21:10:08 - 00:21:14:16

Speaker 1

Ten different new companies coming in every year to our market and ten companies leaving every year.

00:21:14:17 - 00:21:15:15

Speaker 3

And yeah.

00:21:15:16 - 00:21:17:10

Speaker 1

Everybody sees that money.

00:21:17:12 - 00:21:35:22

Speaker 3

Yeah. Well, and I think you made an interesting point to like and maybe we should touch go back and touch on it. Is that like you said, when you went from a 1.5 or whatever you were at to five doesn't mean you were more profitable. Yeah, there's there's more revenue, but it was also costing you a lot more money to get to that five mil.

00:21:35:22 - 00:21:51:06

Speaker 3

And so the profit wasn't there. And I think that's kind of a, you know, a farce or a bad like image that we have, like this preconceived notion in the industry that like, well, if I can get to 5 million revenue, like I'm going to just be killing it, or if I get to ten mil, we're going to be killing it.

00:21:51:09 - 00:21:58:18

Speaker 3

Like you said, there's all these other added expenses and you're maybe not. You may get there, but you might not be as profitable as you were at a million and a half.

00:21:58:19 - 00:22:10:04

Speaker 1

Yeah. I mean, most people are taking the I mean, we're generally taking them taking home about 10% of my profits. Like, that's what I get so high. You're really not making a lot more money. Yeah. No.

00:22:10:05 - 00:22:23:11

Speaker 3

Yeah. It's funny, I talked to a guy at one of the shows a couple of years ago, and he was a one man show, and, you know, he's like, I don't really need tech. You know, we were talking about it, and I was like, how do you need any tech? And he's like, well, I'm a one man show.

00:22:23:16 - 00:22:40:10

Speaker 3

And he said, what I figured out is that I could make around $1 million a year in revenue. I could pay myself, you know, 250, 300 of that because I don't really have much overhead because I'm a one man show. He's like, I can be super selective about the jobs that I do. He goes, why would I ever?

00:22:40:11 - 00:23:02:10

Speaker 3

He's like, I play golf twice a week. He's like, why would I ever want to change that? Why would I ever want to be any bigger and ruin the lifestyle that I've built for myself? He said, I'm perfectly happy right where I am, you know? And I think that that's it's always interesting to me to have those conversations because it's like, you know, you, I think we're just ingrained as an industry to think bigger all the time.

00:23:02:11 - 00:23:18:18

Speaker 3

Think bigger. Right. And so, yeah, bigger isn't always better though, right? So I think it's very refreshing. Yeah. It's very refreshing to hear people who have realized like that's maybe that's not the case, or maybe that's just not for me. Right? For some people, maybe that is right. Maybe it is the goal. And maybe they do want to be big like that.

00:23:18:18 - 00:23:38:20

Speaker 3

And you know, hats off to them for pushing and getting there. But it's not the way that everybody has to go. And you don't have to be a $50 million roofing company to be profitable and live a good life, you know. So yeah, hats off to you for kind of realizing that and sticking to it. You know, when you had an opportunity to scale and you said like, no, it's not.

00:23:38:21 - 00:23:39:21

Speaker 3

You know, it's not my thing.

00:23:39:21 - 00:23:41:18

Speaker 1

So I appreciate that. Thank you.

00:23:41:19 - 00:23:46:06

Speaker 3

Let's talk a little bit about so you guys are now at about what, 5050 you said.

00:23:46:07 - 00:23:47:17

Speaker 1

Oh 5050. Yeah, yeah.

00:23:47:18 - 00:23:52:04

Speaker 3

And so you have a your crew is a subcontracted crew. Correct. Then I take it.

00:23:52:05 - 00:23:52:14

Speaker 1

Right.

00:23:52:15 - 00:23:56:20

Speaker 3

Yeah. So you have how many employees do you have that are actually on the book? Employees?

00:23:56:21 - 00:24:17:17

Speaker 1

Yeah, just me now. So I have one subcontractor or 1099 salesman that is with me, and he does all my sells. Then I have an office staff, which I, I sub out, so it's like a mobile office or whatever it is that they answer all my phone calls, and then I have my crew that I send them on one job a week and they're happy as hell about it.

00:24:17:21 - 00:24:36:03

Speaker 1

The. Granted, this is a bad thing about having crews that you subcontract like if you're loyal to them, you treat them well and you pay them well and you're always respectful to them. They'll stay with you and they'll be loyal with you for a couple of years, but they'll always see, like the grass is always greener, which I've always I found out too.

00:24:36:05 - 00:24:52:06

Speaker 1

So when I maintain my crews, they're generally pretty happy working with me because, I mean, I set my expectations very quickly. This was different, obviously, a few years ago when I was doing 2 or 3 roofs a week. Now I'm doing one roof a week and just super happy about it. I'm just like, hey, we're a wonderful week company.

00:24:52:06 - 00:25:09:16

Speaker 1

You want to work for other crews? Companies go for it. Do it all day long. But I'm gonna give you a week notice. Can you be there? And every single time they're happy, I bring them coffee in the morning. They're out there with me. They're done. They have ten, 11 people over there. They're done in 6 or 7 hours, and we're off to the races.

00:25:09:17 - 00:25:25:10

Speaker 1

You know, it's a beautiful thing. But yeah. So now it's just me as an owner operator, one sales guy, the virtual office that takes all my calls and then just my crew. I still do 100% of my repairs. I don't let anybody do repairs other than me.

00:25:25:10 - 00:25:41:22

Speaker 3

So I ask this question of everybody, and it'll be kind of unique in this case, because you are you really only have yourself as an on staff employee, and you have had some employees in and out in the last couple of years. But I always ask, what what do you think was the most integral hire? So in this case, maybe it was from the outside, right.

00:25:41:23 - 00:25:52:11

Speaker 3

Like the office, the third party office group or the the subcontractors. Who do you think as your business has grown over the last couple of years, was the most integral piece that you added?

00:25:52:12 - 00:26:16:18

Speaker 1

The virtual office, hands down, the hands down. The most important thing I ever did. Low cost, low overhead. You know, it cost me $150 a month. They're always there answering phone calls. They're calling back my customers. They're scheduling for me. They're great. They're always answering the phones. And you can have virtual offices anywhere. You know, it doesn't really matter.

00:26:16:18 - 00:26:38:04

Speaker 1

And I chose just a local company in Boise. And I mean, I've gone to reviews just strictly based off, like, hey, they were welcoming people. The answer the phone immediately they answered all my questions, and if they don't know, that's fine. They just transfer the phone call to me. I'm like, hey, how are you doing? Yeah, but that was by far the most important thing I ever did.

00:26:38:06 - 00:26:57:18

Speaker 1

One of the things that happened with me early on, when we were at that scaling stage, there were so many customers I was missing, which was super important, using roofer R as a CRM because they're documenting their scheduling. They're putting all of that. And like, obviously integrated with the Google Candle calendar and Google Gmail, they're scheduling all of that.

00:26:57:18 - 00:27:19:08

Speaker 1

So I'm notified immediately when a claim set up and we're setting up automations like Appointment Calendar set. My customer is getting a text message immediately. Day before the appointment. They're getting an email reminder, and we don't have to do any of that anymore. Beforehand, I was getting calls straight to voicemail. And, you know, I don't know if I was ever going to call them back.

00:27:19:09 - 00:27:35:21

Speaker 1

It'd be good jobs to like, they're ready to move forward. I was like, yeah, I'm probably not going to call this customer back, even though I know I could make, you know, maybe. So I was like, I could do this an hour, make 600 bucks. I was like, yeah, whatever. Another job is going to come because I had hired that virtual office.

00:27:35:21 - 00:27:42:23

Speaker 1

I don't miss anything. If customers need to get a hold of me, they're calling the office first and then it's coming back to me. It's just been beautiful.

00:27:43:00 - 00:28:00:10

Speaker 3

Yeah, especially. I mean, with you starting in repairs and like you said, you did, what, almost 300 repairs in the first year? Yeah. Like if you're by yourself, that's, you know, if you're doing 300 repairs, imagine how many calls you're probably taking because probably some of those that don't even really turn into jobs, like, that's probably an incredible amount of being on the phone.

00:28:00:11 - 00:28:30:09

Speaker 3

Right. And if you're the person who's out there actually doing the repairs, you know, you don't have that time to potentially do both, right? So yeah, it's I think that that's a huge part. Like I, you know, I always tell the story of, you know, having plumbing work done at my house back in new Jersey when I lived there and having to call three companies before I even got someone to answer the phone, I called two big, you know, the two larger companies in town that were reputable companies came highly recommended, called both of them, went straight to voicemail.

00:28:30:11 - 00:28:46:01

Speaker 3

One of them, one of them had their voicemail full. Couldn't even leave them a message. Yeah. And then I called, you know, I called a friend who worked in the roofing space and asked him for a recommendation. He's like, call this dude, right? And I called this guy. You know, it's literally just his personal voicemail. No company name.

00:28:46:02 - 00:29:06:22

Speaker 3

Picked the phone up, answered the phone, text them some information, and he was there the next morning to fix it. You know, and it's any that's why you won the job. Quite honestly, it had nothing to do. Like, I never even asked him how much it was. Yeah, he won because he picked up the phone, you know. And so so I think people we talk often about how important that is, right.

00:29:06:23 - 00:29:24:19

Speaker 3

And how important it is to just be that guy that answers the phone. Right. And so, yeah. So I totally agree with you. I think that that's a huge, huge piece of the puzzle. And you obviously have solved the puzzle. You know, being a a smaller guy, a one man show, you were able to pull it off by having that virtual office.

00:29:24:21 - 00:29:41:17

Speaker 3

You know, we had Angela on from Unique Genius. That's a company that does that. I mean, they you know, there's a couple of other companies out there that do it, you know, and we'll we'll set up that back office help for you and they'll do just about everything. I mean, you know, they have people that will answer the phone and do you know, they'll quote for you.

00:29:41:20 - 00:29:44:07

Speaker 3

I mean, you can essentially train them to do anything, right?

00:29:44:09 - 00:29:46:13

Speaker 1

They'll do whatever you ask them to do. And.

00:29:46:14 - 00:29:47:03

Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:29:47:05 - 00:29:48:14

Speaker 1

Wonderful.

00:29:48:16 - 00:29:51:18

Speaker 3

Yeah. And like you said, what, $150 a month you're paying for it.

00:29:51:19 - 00:29:52:03

Speaker 1

That's just.

00:29:52:03 - 00:30:00:15

Speaker 3

Nothing that that's a no brainer, right? Like, if you had one person working in your office, you'd be paying them substantially more than that, right.

00:30:00:17 - 00:30:21:08

Speaker 1

For doing the same thing. And it's wonderful. Like, I think every every small business that's operating should, unfortunately should get rid of their secretary and hire of our total office. I mean, it just doesn't it makes sense, especially because of like I'm going to go back to your CRM. It's just it's so easy. I can call my virtual office and send them.

00:30:21:08 - 00:30:27:08

Speaker 1

Email is like, hey, can you send an invoice? Or I can do it on my phone, but it's just easier to just call my office and they'll just they'll.

00:30:27:08 - 00:30:27:17

Speaker 3

Just.

00:30:27:17 - 00:30:29:19

Speaker 1

Do it. Just do. They'll just click it.

00:30:29:19 - 00:30:49:08

Speaker 3

That's a huge piece, right? Like you have this virtual office, like they're not even really in your company, but they're in your CRM every day and they're operating at it like they're using it efficiently. So talk a little bit about technology, right. Have you guys employed technology from day one? Was there a time in the business where you said, hey, we need a CRM, we need some technology in this?

00:30:49:10 - 00:31:11:20

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I came from the insurance world. So like technology is key. You know, we're using exact made and then one day and I mean I started in exact 21 I think it was act 19 when I started the industry. It was like pre view. I used to go on jobs when Eagle View came out back in like probably 2010, and they'd make us print out the Eagle view measurement and then we go out there and we'd have to verify.

00:31:11:20 - 00:31:31:06

Speaker 1

We'd still have to measure hand measure the roof to verify the measurements. But I became really successful in my insurance job is because I understood the importance of communication and follow ups and automations. So I became one of the top one producers, top three producers in the northwest when as a as an adjuster. And that just means call volume, quality customer service.

00:31:31:07 - 00:31:52:09

Speaker 1

You know, they want us go out there. They want us handle claims within 24 hours, 72 hours, no wait time. And most of it was due to communications. I set up on matic emails like follow ups, stuff like that. So I knew immediately that we needed technology. Unfortunately, I've been using roofer since the beginning because it's the cheapest way to get roof measurements.

00:31:52:11 - 00:32:14:03

Speaker 1

So back in 2020, I mean eagle view hover, I mean those things are ridiculous. I like hover, I mean, it's cool, but I have to go out there and look at it beforehand, do the whole like 30 photos, come back, get the report, spend $30 on it, whatever it is. Eagle view is like $30 each time, but roofer is is automatic.

00:32:14:06 - 00:32:46:08

Speaker 1

I used exact remodels. I did not do a exact mate. I went to Zachary Model, which is like a dumbed down version of Zack mate, just a lot cheaper. And so I use those right off the bat. I did not transition into full use of roofer until I think last year. Once you started integrating with Google calendars, you started doing the payment, the Gmail, and then when he integrated with like my suppliers, that's when I was like, no, we're completely on board.

00:32:46:09 - 00:33:11:05

Speaker 1

And now you guys are complete CRM. Like all my customers are locked in there, communications, invoicing. So beforehand I was downloading a report from roofer, getting the measurements, going to exact remodel, writing my estimates, sending the estimates via QuickBooks, and getting paid an invoice through QuickBooks. I mean, there's four different programs like I'm using just send an estimate.

00:33:11:05 - 00:33:21:04

Speaker 1

And so it was time, and I hate wasting time so that that whole process would take 4 or 6 hours, not just like continuous waiting, but like it'd take time.

00:33:21:06 - 00:33:21:16

Speaker 3

Over time.

00:33:21:17 - 00:33:47:19

Speaker 1

Yeah. Now, like I'm getting a measurement two hours later, I'm doing using my template. I'm just pressing a button. It's prefilled and I'm sending the estimate. It's going over to the next, sending an email automatically. Jobs completed. I'm sending invoice. It's just clean. And then obviously I'm integrated with QuickBooks now. So my advice is just now going and my payments are now just going and filling into QuickBooks.

00:33:47:20 - 00:34:04:13

Speaker 1

It just makes everything so much easier. I don't care if you're a small company or a large company, as if any. If you're going to 2 or 3 different programs, you're wasting too much time like you do need to focus on just having one program that is fully integrated that can make you successful.

00:34:04:14 - 00:34:25:16

Speaker 3

Yeah, I think, you know, I think traditionally in this industry, like I've been in it eight and a half years now, and it's like in the beginning that was kind of the way things were built, right? Everything was built like this hub model where like your, you know, your CRM was at the middle of your business, but you, you had to plug in all these other things to do things like you had to plug in a measurement tool and you had to plug in a quoting tool.

00:34:25:18 - 00:34:44:08

Speaker 3

And that's kind of like traditionally how we did things. And now, you know, we've gotten to the point, like you said, where like roofer has done a really good job and some other companies are working towards it too, is like bringing everything under one umbrella to where you can run all inside of one piece of software. And it just it just makes you so much more efficient, right?

00:34:44:09 - 00:35:02:14

Speaker 3

And it makes it so much more seamless. And just honestly on the back end, it makes it easier for you. Right? Like there's no double entry, there's no manual stuff of moving information from one to the other. And so not only is it saving you time, but it's just saving you frustration, right, of like this, you know, this repetitive work.

00:35:02:14 - 00:35:18:10

Speaker 3

So talk a little bit about Rufus sites, right. Like that's a new service that roofer offers that you're using. You know, we briefly spoke about it before we got started here today. But what's your experience with that? And like how has that changed a bit of your business.

00:35:18:12 - 00:35:38:13

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I started with Rufus sites during the beta. So maybe six months ago I think that's where you guys came out immediately. Once they notified me that they were doing a resize, I signed up. I was like, yeah, there's no reason why it connect with Instant Estimator, which I don't actually use quite a bit. I do like having this instant estimator.

00:35:38:15 - 00:36:02:02

Speaker 1

It's not a big part of my business, but it connects with like with good financing. There's call to actions in there. So when I first started, I had a Google. My business didn't have a website at all. I just had my Google My Business landing page. Oddly enough, that got me a lot of business not having a website that they just click on my Google My Business page and like, pull up a basic information about me.

00:36:02:04 - 00:36:18:00

Speaker 1

An SEO company called me and, you know, all of us are doing that and we're getting cold eight, nine times a day, like promoting SEO. We're gonna get you number one on the maps, like, yeah, sign up. So they built my first website. It was garbage, you know, it was just a garbage site. I saw people not coming.

00:36:18:00 - 00:36:37:00

Speaker 1

It looked trashy. Went to the next company maybe a year later, like, oh, we can get you number one to map ranking, get you up there. You're going to be number one search on. And I was like, yes. I mean, I went through four different websites in a very short period of time. Eventually, like these sites were just making it too difficult for my customers.

00:36:37:00 - 00:37:00:01

Speaker 1

So I started managing my side and built it myself. Liked it. But anytime you have a website, you have to constantly update. You have to constantly SEO, you got to taglines, metadata. You got to fill this up, make it current. I don't have to do that at all. Like it's there. It's Google sites. It's so they built my site within an hour.

00:37:00:03 - 00:37:11:03

Speaker 1

They had some questions. Not even an hour, maybe 30 minutes. Who knows how long it took. The beautiful website. It's easy. It's clean.

00:37:11:05 - 00:37:36:11

Speaker 1

And I can update it whenever. So I was updating it earlier today, so I was just nominated for Boise's Best for for the third year in a row. So I just put them on my website. I noticed my better business logo wasn't on it, so I went over to a better business bureau, bought my little tagline or whatever it's called the and I threw that on my website, took 20s, you know, out of those on there.

00:37:36:13 - 00:38:08:00

Speaker 1

And so you can update and change your, your Google sites or your, your Rufus sites immediately if you want to. But you also don't have to worry about it. It's going to automatically update like I got blog pages now. And so I used to use WordPress to update blogs and write blogs, and it was just a pain. I'd come home, do my website, update it, be my SEO, do my meta tags, go to WordPress, get like 4 or 5 blogs going, send that out for keyword.

00:38:08:02 - 00:38:22:21

Speaker 1

No, it's a waste of time. Like I don't want to do that. I'm a roofer. Like I hate sitting in front of my computer. I like like being on the job site. So now through sites, I just don't have to deal with it. I mean, it's a it's a good site, it's clean and that's what people want to see.

00:38:22:21 - 00:38:33:18

Speaker 1

They want to clean site updated photos. My reviews are or on there. It's everything I wanted. And it was completed. Like I said, maybe an hour or 30 minutes. Who knows.

00:38:33:20 - 00:38:38:12

Speaker 3

I guess it's a newer product for us. So it's cool to hear good things, good positive things about it.

00:38:38:13 - 00:38:59:00

Speaker 1

So it's cool that every month that they give you like a agency engine, that's the person that the company that's doing the they send you an update, they're like, hey, these keywords are doing really well. You're getting like rank 3 or 4 and these searches, so they keep you posted. So in the back end making sure that you're getting a job, I just go and point this out.

00:38:59:00 - 00:39:24:04

Speaker 1

Since Agency Engine took over for sites, I generally get about 20 to 30 clicks to my website. Most people just see my business online and call the phone number. Since I started, I'm getting like 90 to 100 clicks a month every 28 days. So which is huge from 20 to 90 in six months. So more people are actually going to my website, which is great, which I couldn't ask for.

00:39:24:05 - 00:39:28:18

Speaker 1

I mean, I don't know if that's generating more business or not, but I know more people are going to my website based off of.

00:39:28:19 - 00:39:43:14

Speaker 3

At least it's more exposure, right? Like, you know, people are going there now. So that's a good feedback on it there. Yeah. On how it's working. So yeah that's very cool. So let's talk a little bit. We talked about kind of the business and where you guys are at. Where are you guys looking to go. Where are you looking to go with the business here.

00:39:43:14 - 00:39:45:20

Speaker 3

And like say the next 3 to 5 years.

00:39:45:21 - 00:40:03:22

Speaker 1

Yeah I think it's still maintaining like I like the status quo. I mean, I think every roofer wants to be like, let's do 100 routes, 150 routes a year. If those come in like, great. But we're very confident in how we want to be. Like, I like being home at 3:00. I like to be with my kids.

00:40:03:22 - 00:40:18:15

Speaker 1

I coach the football part time, like I like coaching my kids. I like I like going to their choir performances and taekwondo, like going to all their games and their gymnastics meets. If I was going to scale up, there's no way I'm going to do it. But ideally, what I want, I want to build a legacy for my kids.

00:40:18:15 - 00:40:45:00

Speaker 1

Like, I can't do this forever. I'm going to try because like A.D.D. and I don't know what to do with my downtime if I wasn't working. But like, eventually a 54 year old man can't be on a roof like shingling anymore. Like, I want my kids to be able to do it. And if I can build that, establish a business that's going to maintain, you know, a $1.52 million business each year without them needed to work.

00:40:45:02 - 00:40:53:19

Speaker 1

That's what I want. I want them to be able to, at 22 years old, to start in an industry that they're going to be successful and hopefully be able to buy a house.

00:40:53:20 - 00:40:59:00

Speaker 3

Well, man, I appreciate you coming on. I mean, I don't want to hold you up all day here. You probably have some repairs to get to, right?

00:40:59:00 - 00:41:03:00

Speaker 1

I do, yeah I got a I got a big one like ten minutes. That's all right.

00:41:03:01 - 00:41:23:03

Speaker 3

There you go. All right. Well I really appreciate you jumping on. And you know, this has been fantastic. It's great to learn a little bit about the business and hear what you guys have going on. And congrats again on being root for the month here with us and a great story. And thank you for letting us be along for the ride and for being such a big part of the business and of your success.

00:41:23:03 - 00:41:28:00

Speaker 3

So happy that we could we could help out with that. But thanks man. I appreciate you coming on.

00:41:28:01 - 00:41:30:09

Speaker 1

Every time, baby. You have a great day. Thank you guys so much again.

00:41:30:10 - 00:41:35:01

Speaker 3

Thank you everybody and we will talk to you next time on the roof for report. Hey everybody.

00:41:35:01 - 00:41:45:15

Speaker 4

Thank you for listening. Check us out next time on the roofer podcast. But until then be sure to like us, subscribe to us and check out all our other episodes on YouTube and Spotify.

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